stable flying ? - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-07-2020, 07:03 AM   #1
lee1hy
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 473
Default stable flying ?

Unlike the KA50, UH-1 flight is unstable. Is there any auto-stable ROLL PITCH system like KA50? It doesn't seem to have any trim.

I'm curious how to take off and land stably like Youttube's real video of huey. Without shaking
lee1hy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2020, 07:20 AM   #2
CHPL
Senior Member
 
CHPL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,101
Default

No - there is no stabilizing System in the Huey besides the Pilot

At the moment, the KA-50 is the only drone in DCS

If you need help? We assist you in becoming a good helicopter pilot in a short amount of time.
Send me a private message or join the

Helicopter Pilot Meeting Point on DISCORD
https://discord.gg/CXCA7rf

It is up to you
__________________
Always happy landings
CHPL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2020, 08:59 PM   #3
Gunnars Driver
Member
 
Gunnars Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sweden
Posts: 482
Default

The flight model of the Huey have one kind of unstability modelled that isnt really realistic.
At the same time, I think it was the easiest way to try to modulate the helicopters “dynamically unstable but statically stable” caracteristic. Not that bad, but not that good either.

IRL, if you keep the stick still the helo will be still...but in the DCS Huey case there is a oscillation about(roughly from mind) 0,5hz.

The trim: you can bind a trim button that works like a simulated force trim. Put the stick to the wished position and hit the button, then release your stick to centre.
One problem is that you loose trow in the other direction so if you not trim back to around centre you might end up in a situation where the stick throw is less then needed in the other direction, putting yourself into a dangerous situation.
For example fast forward flight and trimmed so you can release the stick and keep level flight, if you lower collective much, there is too less backwards throw to catch the nose down attitude that follows the lowered collective, and your nose dive despite stick is maximum back. Its possible to make a quick recall by stick back+trim button and release stick to middle, and then new stick back,

The attitude change/need for cyclic stick backwards from lowering the collective is overdone in the flight model, which of course isnt helpful.
__________________
[T.M HOTAS Warthog Stick & Throttle + T.Flight pedals, HP Reverb pro, Oculus Rift]
[DCS Mirage 2K; Huey; Spitfire Mk IX, AJS 37, F-14, F-18, FC3 ]
i9 9900KS@5.2/32Gb@3200/ ASUS ROG STRIX RTX2080ti OC 11Gb @2080Mhz, ASUS ROG STRIX Z390-F , 2Tb m2 NVMe
Gunnars Driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2020, 01:45 AM   #4
Nealius
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 4,469
Default

I believe most of the instability and twitchiness in the Huey is the fault of our light, short joysticks. When I upgraded to a 20cm extension on my Warthog stick the Huey became extremely stable and easy to fly.
__________________
YouTube Channel: "Clutch"

ASUS Z170 | i5-7600 | RTX2070 | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10
Nealius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2020, 06:03 AM   #5
ebabil
Veteran
 
ebabil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Turkiye/Istanbul
Posts: 3,545
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnars Driver View Post
The flight model of the Huey have one kind of unstability modelled that isnt really realistic.
At the same time, I think it was the easiest way to try to modulate the helicopters “dynamically unstable but statically stable” caracteristic. Not that bad, but not that good either.

IRL, if you keep the stick still the helo will be still...but in the DCS Huey case there is a oscillation about (roughly from mind) 0,5hz.
When I suggested that opinion years ago, they beat me with forks and torches
Now the only thing we have to do is keep wrestling with the stick..
I got an MSFFB2 and lowered its ffb to 10%. So wrestling is way to easy and not tiring compared to sticks with springs
__________________
FC3 | UH-1H | Mi-8MTV2 | A-10C | F/A-18C | Ka-50 | F-14A/B | F-16C | F-4E
Persian Gulf | Nevada | Syria
NS-430 | Supercarrier

Youtube
Z390 / i5 9400F / Gtx1070 / 16 GB Ram / 500 gb SSD and 1 tb HDD // CH Fighterstick - MS FFB2 - TM Warthog Throttle and Stick - CH Pro Pedals - TrackIR 4
ebabil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2020, 06:57 AM   #6
Kingsly
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 24
Default

No time in huey’s but lots in Robinson’s and other types. The FM feels like a rl teetering blade helicopter to me! I agree there’s a little fore/aft oscillation. It’s really obvious if you speed up time whilst holding the stick perfectly still.
Kingsly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2020, 07:05 AM   #7
CHPL
Senior Member
 
CHPL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,101
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealius View Post
I believe most of the instability and twitchiness in the Huey is the fault of our light, short joysticks. When I upgraded to a 20cm extension on my Warthog stick the Huey became extremely stable and easy to fly.
A stick extension is always a good idea.

1. Because of the long arm forces by the springs much less and it is more relaxed flying.

2. A longer arm increases the "resolution" of the pilot's inputs because of, the way you have available doubles, and it also feels much more realistic.
__________________
Always happy landings
CHPL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2020, 09:52 AM   #8
SPAS79
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lee1hy View Post
Unlike the KA50, UH-1 flight is unstable. Is there any auto-stable ROLL PITCH system like KA50? It doesn't seem to have any trim.

I'm curious how to take off and land stably like Youttube's real video of huey. Without shaking
No. I used to have (and still possess) a non-centering replica B206 cyclic (some kind of early KomodoSim prototype).

Flying the huey with that was:
1) A blast
2) unstable because the stick was non-centering, so using trim was meaningless and I had to constantly "stir" it to whatever degree required to keep the heli on course, exactly like it happens IRL.

then I switched to one of the boutique sticks with extensions and self-centering mechanisms (springs&cams). All of a sudden trim works and I can let go of the cyclic and if properly set up the huey will "fly itself" stable for a few seconds, before drifting.

IDK what's better. I would say hands-on all the time is more realistic (in a non SA helo, you'd never let go of a cyclic IRL, that's the only thing keeping you from crashing) but self-center+trim is so much more comfortable to click around the cockpit, chat etc...
SPAS79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2020, 10:54 AM   #9
Eight Ball
Senior Member
 
Eight Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Bubbelgium
Posts: 1,696
Default

You have to be very gentle with your controls, usually people tend to over correct.

I'm don't know what stick you are using but if you have a TM Warthog it might be worth removing the main spring inside the base so it's no longer self centering. It's much, much easier. Did that years ago and never looked back.
Eight Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2020, 03:39 PM   #10
Rifter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 18
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnars Driver View Post
IRL, if you keep the stick still the helo will be still...but in the DCS Huey case there is a oscillation about(roughly from mind) 0,5hz.

Ok, finally this seems to be the thread where I can talk about it...

I realised a variation of the oscillation depending on the DCS version on my side.
Also a crowded scenery (other aircraft and helicopters) seems to influence the oscillation.
To me it feels like a kind of input latency which seems to be related to the code side of DCS when a lot of calculations are going on (for example because of a complex scenery around you).

I never dared to ask about this in the forum - because of the forks and torches ebabil mentioned…

When 2.5.4 arrived, no subversion of the 2.5.4 branch worked for me.
So I went back to the last 2.5.3. version. It was the only version in which I could pick up the Huey smooth and nearly without oscillations. It is actually possible to hold the helo without movement in the cyclic - just as it should be. A huge difference which is definitely not pilot or joystick related!


Fun fact: I never updated since then because I was so happy with it.
I’m fearing the day I have to update and lose that smooth Huey behaviour…

Last edited by Rifter; 04-08-2020 at 04:25 PM. Reason: Typo
Rifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:02 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.