I have my suspicions...

Some of the guys I fight in guns only BFM in the Just Dogfight server are really good. Sometimes they seem too good. Like so good it's suspect. Sometimes I think these guys have replaced the professional flight models in their high fidelity modules with the cheating AI flight model. I'll tell you the reason I think that.

At the bottom and top of loops or in the tight turns of a low turning fight these guys can throttle back out of afterburner and pull crazy AOA yet still maintain a ton of energy then throttle back up to full afterburner to continue the turning fight or vertical energy fight and gain position. I've tried to do the same thing. I bleed a ton of energy and get slow. It's impossible to do that with the flight model that came standard with my modules.

The only thing in DCS I've seen that can do that is the AI simple flight model.

I'm sure there's a way to make Integrity Check think all your modules are vanilla installs despite the fact that you have a different flight model installed. Where there's a will to cheat there is a way. Just look at the Russians in the Olympics.

“Russian bias!” —from a popular flight game

May I ask what aircraft they fly? Just curious.

“Russian bias!” —from a popular flight game

 

May I ask what aircraft they fly? Just curious.

Typically the Hornet or Mirage. The times that come to mind that I inexplicably get my butt handed to me it has been those two jets with me in the Hornet.

Every now and then a Su-27, but not as many people seem to fly Flankers in the JDF on OB anymore

Where there's a will to cheat there is a way. Just look at the Norwegians in the Olympics.

Allegedly

Some of the guys I fight in guns only BFM in the Just Dogfight server are really good. Sometimes they seem too good. Like so good it's suspect. Sometimes I think these guys have replaced the professional flight models in their high fidelity modules with the cheating AI flight model. I'll tell you the reason I think that.

 

At the bottom and top of loops or in the tight turns of a low turning fight these guys can throttle back out of afterburner and pull crazy AOA yet still maintain a ton of energy then throttle back up to full afterburner to continue the turning fight or vertical energy fight and gain position. I've tried to do the same thing. I bleed a ton of energy and get slow. It's impossible to do that with the flight model that came standard with my modules.

 

The only thing in DCS I've seen that can do that is the AI simple flight model.

 

I'm sure there's a way to make Integrity Check think all your modules are vanilla installs despite the fact that you have a different flight model installed. Where there's a will to cheat there is a way. Just look at the Russians in the Olympics.

If you have Tacview, please post sample files showing this behavior. the SFM is easily detectable by its "patterns" of flight.

You're dreaming buddy. Those guys are good. I fly with a bunch of JDF jockeys at least 4x per week. I feel ya, it gets frustrating getting shot down over and over and over.

Two options. Say "cheaters" and stomp off. Go back to Instant Action and let the truly pathetic AI have its way with you (and wonder if it's cheating also). Or learn how to fly the durn thing. Which is not easy.

Let us know if you want some pointers. Nobody is gonna tell you how to do it; you can't, you learn by doing. But we can give you some pointers on how to find learning opportunities. To be clear, if you follow that path, you're gonna have to learn how to get up off the mat and say, "Let's go again." Over and over and over.

I can see how it's easy to fall into the "nah, cheater" trap. Been there myself when getting my ass kicked early on in the old IL2 - "nah, he was speed hacking!" was what anyone would say when they got their clocks cleaned real good, instead of shutting up and inwardly self reflecting.

That isn't to say that there weren't cheaters, there absolutely were.

I dabble in the Bug with a group of guys and we had an internal DF guns only tourny, mostly what was flown was Hornets. I flew a few of them against regular bug drivers and for as childishly simple it seems to be to fly they could make the plane things that made me kill all of my energy. Frustrating? You betcha, my only real kill in the damn thing was a move I tried to follow and the guy ended up in front of me because he had all of his energy and I lost mine, which squirted him out in front by pure accident lol.....

Point is that while I agree that there is always someone looking to exploit the game to get ahead it's pretty rare. By and far it's time in the sim/game/module, experience, researching capabilities/limitations, knowledge of other's airplanes, etc, that make the fight.

~Rob

 

Two options. Say "cheaters" and stomp off. Go back to Instant Action and let the truly pathetic AI have its way with you (and wonder if it's cheating also). Or learn how to fly the durn thing. Which is not easy.

 

Let us know if you want some pointers. Nobody is gonna tell you how to do it; you can't, you learn by doing. But we can give you some pointers on how to find learning opportunities. To be clear, if you follow that path, you're gonna have to learn how to get up off the mat and say, "Let's go again." Over and over and over.

HA! I know for a FACT the AI cheats! The alternative is I suck, and I've been flying for almost two whole hours now! :music_whistling:

Actually...pointers would be a good thing... I can fly F-5 vs F-5 guns only with AI set 'high' to a draw, but dang that thing retains energy. 'Good' isn't even competitive at this point, so I'm working on energy retention. I'll work on snapshots when I start getting them.

The concern, of course, is that I'm developing bad habits given the AI isn't exactly creative, but I'm really more interested in gunnery skills. I'll learn missile tactics later (for a couple reasons).

Well, the AI is indeed cheating due to it's FM, we cannot overcome that. But cheating online is not that easy to be honest, mainly because of the Integrity Check, which if it's ON, there is NO way to get through with some cheats. Surprisingly, DCS and flight sims community is a niche, but it has one of the most, if not the most effective anti cheat systems I've ever seen, and I wish other games had it too.

One more thing about AI. Personally, I don't think it's good idea to learn against them, for obvious reasons and I advise to learn against real players, who are BETTER than you, because that forces you to learn and develop new tactics.

P.S. There's a Hornet guns only tournament that will take place on 29th-30th. Maybe someone can learn something from there, and participate to have some fun.

Until you can prove otherwise, they know how to fly their aircraft and BFM, and you don't. People who really know what they're doing WILL make it look like magic.

Some of the guys I fight in guns only BFM in the Just Dogfight server are really good. Sometimes they seem too good. Like so good it's suspect. Sometimes I think these guys have replaced the professional flight models in their high fidelity modules with the cheating AI flight model.

Watching satal podcasts really helped my bvr, hoping the hornet tournament will be equally illuminating. Following a skilled player around in f2 or f4 view, or in the Rio seat is a learning opportunity. Tacview everything and watch it with an analytical eye.