Discrepency in Coordinate Systems

What's the deal with that?

For GPS guided weapons you enter coordinates in L/L as

[N/S] DD°MM'SS.ss"

[E/W] DDD°MM'SS.ss"

And the fractions of seconds as two numbers.

But for HSI you enter coordinates with fractions of minutes, no seconds at all:

[N/S] DD°MM.mm'

[E/W] DDD°MM.mm'

or with precise option

[N/S] DD°MM.mmmm'

[E/W] DDD°MM.mmmm'

where you enter the four fraction digits of the minute after entering degrees and whole minutes.

What's the big deal? Is that realistic? Can you configure the aircraft to change what system you use where? Because that's not only annoying but very inconvenient. You get some coordinates for a target, and you constantly need to convert to either this or that format.

Can't americans not even get the most basic units straight? Use one or the other, not both, in the same plane no less.

Worst case: Target GG 27623 52315

Workflow:

1. Open map (F10)

2. Find coordinates

3. Write down coordinates in sane L/L (fractions of seconds)

4. Open calc

5. Divide seconds and fractions of seconds by 60 to get fractions of minutes for insane L/L

6. Punch it into hsi

7. Punch it into wpn

The whole process takes about a minute and a half...

By the time you have put in the coordinates an A10 would've started from cold, punched in as MGRS, flown there and blown it up.

you can change the HSI to use Lat Long Seconds instead by going to the Data->A/C page and in the bottom right you can change from 'Lat Long DCML" to "Lat Long Sec"

The Hornet can use MGRS. It's just not implemented yet.

Also, why wouldn't you want to be able to use different coordinate systems? You could receive data from different sources during a mission and it might happen thar once source, say, a JTAC, can only give you one format. Isn't it better to have the option of using it directly over having to whip a calculator out?

Isn't it better to have the option of using it directly over having to whip a calculator out?

Exactly my point. You should be able to enter coordinates in any which way. And if you do make it fixed, then at least make it consistent between the systems.

Exactly my point. You should be able to enter coordinates in any which way. And if you do make it fixed, then at least make it consistent between the systems.

You can also change the F-10 map coordinates to decimal seconds by pressing left ALT + Y, move your mouse after you change to update it.

So with a little bit of setting up you can have the aircraft using the same LL setup for all things... Makes it nice and easy, no calculator required.

FalcoGer

Exactly my point. You should be able to enter coordinates in any which way. And if you do make it fixed, then at least make it consistent between the systems.

you should look at gekoig post #2

Yea, just change the Hornet's HSI coordinate format and enable Precise mode, problem solved.

What's the deal with that?

For GPS guided weapons you enter coordinates in L/L as

[N/S] DD°MM'SS.ss"

[E/W] DDD°MM'SS.ss"

And the fractions of seconds as two numbers.

 

But for HSI you enter coordinates with fractions of minutes, no seconds at all:

[N/S] DD°MM.mm'

[E/W] DDD°MM.mm'

 

or with precise option

[N/S] DD°MM.mmmm'

[E/W] DDD°MM.mmmm'

where you enter the four fraction digits of the minute after entering degrees and whole minutes.

 

 

What's the big deal? Is that realistic? Can you configure the aircraft to change what system you use where? Because that's not only annoying but very inconvenient. You get some coordinates for a target, and you constantly need to convert to either this or that format.

Can't americans not even get the most basic units straight? Use one or the other, not both, in the same plane no less.

 

Worst case: Target GG 27623 52315

Workflow:

1. Open map (F10)

2. Find coordinates

3. Write down coordinates in sane L/L (fractions of seconds)

4. Open calc

5. Divide seconds and fractions of seconds by 60 to get fractions of minutes for insane L/L

6. Punch it into hsi

7. Punch it into wpn

 

The whole process takes about a minute and a half...

By the time you have put in the coordinates an A10 would've started from cold, punched in as MGRS, flown there and blown it up.

Where do you think the HSI takes DD MM mm?

I don’t have access to the manual at the moment but Chucks guide on page 169 lists the HSI as DDMMss.

TJ

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not a military background but a fire dept career. I am out west so we had extensive experience and deployment for wild land fires every season. We used GPS coordinates A LOT for wild land fires. We had to know how to use different formats because these were multi agency fires. You would think that all government agencies would use a standard format, but they do not. Depending on who you were working mad to know how to enter the different formats based on whatever the home agency used. I would guess that maybe all US branches use the same format, but the US works cooperatively with many countries and I’m sure it’s the same as above. Not everyone uses the same format. And it would be the responsibility of the pilot, like the engine captain, to be a professional, and understand how to input coordinates in different formats to maintain operational effectiveness.

What's the deal with that?

For GPS guided weapons you enter coordinates in L/L as

[N/S] DD°MM'SS.ss"

[E/W] DDD°MM'SS.ss"

And the fractions of seconds as two numbers.

 

But for HSI you enter coordinates with fractions of minutes, no seconds at all:

[N/S] DD°MM.mm'

[E/W] DDD°MM.mm'

 

or with precise option

[N/S] DD°MM.mmmm'

[E/W] DDD°MM.mmmm'

where you enter the four fraction digits of the minute after entering degrees and whole minutes.

 

 

What's the big deal? Is that realistic? Can you configure the aircraft to change what system you use where? Because that's not only annoying but very inconvenient. You get some coordinates for a target, and you constantly need to convert to either this or that format.

Can't americans not even get the most basic units straight? Use one or the other, not both, in the same plane no less.

 

Worst case: Target GG 27623 52315

Workflow:

1. Open map (F10)

2. Find coordinates

3. Write down coordinates in sane L/L (fractions of seconds)

4. Open calc

5. Divide seconds and fractions of seconds by 60 to get fractions of minutes for insane L/L

6. Punch it into hsi

7. Punch it into wpn

 

The whole process takes about a minute and a half...

By the time you have put in the coordinates an A10 would've started from cold, punched in as MGRS, flown there and blown it up.

Where do you think the HSI takes DD MM mm?

 

I don’t have access to the manual at the moment but Chucks guide on page 169 lists the HSI as DDMMss.

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well crap - you sir are exactly right (I think)

So I filed this bug report a few days ago:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=243322

In that bug report, the TOO mode for JDAMs isnt taking the coordinates (entered as DDMMSSSS) from the HSI and transferring them over to the JDAM correctly (its converting them and as such the JDAM misses the intended target.)

See, I think the way its intended to work is by default you enter into the HSI DDMMSS, and then on the DATA page of the HSI, it shows DDMMmmmm (it converts to this format.) That aligns with Chucks guide (all though I cant find anything in the early access manual to confirm.) However, when you enter the coordinates in DDMMSSss (precise), the HSI isnt converting them at all - its displaying them raw as you entered. Thats odd, as 169 of Chucks guide clearly shows where he entered DDMMSS and it was converted to DDMMmm.

So as a little test, this is what I did:

Took my coordinates from DDMMSSSS and converted them to DDMMmmmm:

26.14.48.21 54.30.47.06 to 26.14.80.35 54.30.79.01

I then punched those into the HSI (26.14.8035 54.30.7901) and selected TOO mode on a JDAM - now the JDAM shows 26.14.48.21 (PERFECT) 54.30.47.41 (very close)

So, I think you are actually on to something... I think somewhere either we are suppost to enter DDMMmm into the HSI (like you describe) or the HSI has stopped converting DDMMss to DDMMmm.

TJ

And I just changed my HSI to LATLN SEC (Data, A/C, bottom right) and entered my coordinates again via UFS in DDMMssss (precise) then went to the JDAM and hit TOO mode. PRESTO, perfect coordinates for the target.

hehehehe - i love bug reports (i have 15 years of software development in my professional career) - the only gurantee as you peel back the layers of the onion is that everyone cries.

This sure doesnt seem like a valid bug now:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=243322

TJ

Yep, sounds like you were entering DDMMSS.SS coordinates into a DDMM.MMMM format, which is why they ended up not matching and being nowhere near the target. They changed the default from DDMMSS to DDMM.MM on the HSI the last patch - I kinda wish they'd change it back so we don't have to change it every time.

Yep, sounds like you were entering DDMMSS.SS coordinates into a DDMM.MMMM format, which is why they ended up not matching and being nowhere near the target. They changed the default from DDMMSS to DDMM.MM on the HSI the last patch - I kinda wish they'd change it back so we don't have to change it every time.

I read something about eventually being able to save presets for the Hornet. Like, counter measure programs and some other things. Maybe HSI settings like GPS format will be one of them.

Yep, sounds like you were entering DDMMSS.SS coordinates into a DDMM.MMMM format, which is why they ended up not matching and being nowhere near the target. They changed the default from DDMMSS to DDMM.MM on the HSI the last patch - I kinda wish they'd change it back so we don't have to change it every time.

Ahhh... This is why Chucks Guide doesnt match - and since the manual has no mention of the format (or if it does I cant find it), thats why we have been left astray.

Thanks guys

I successfully put 12 jdams on targets tonight in my practice mission using TOO mode.

TJ

you can change the HSI to use Lat Long Seconds instead by going to the Data->A/C page and in the bottom right you can change from 'Lat Long DCML" to "Lat Long Sec"

you made my day! thank you! :thumbup: