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Revisiting the Simple Pick-Up (Directly Vertical) and Hover


Bearfoot

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Folks,

 

After a long time away from the stick, I am getting back in the swing of things. I thought I would start exploring the Gazelle more in depth this time (99% of my DCS rotary-wing flying has been in the Huey ...)

 

This has been discussed before, I know, and I know it has been fixed: the pick-up and hover.

 

But, TBH, I have yet to see this be done, and I certainly am having difficult doing it!

 

Now, I can take off smoothly enough -- gentle up on the collective, a WHOLE LOT of right pedal, and I just glide into the air like a poem! Then as speed builds, relax the right pedal, and ease into translational lift flight. Everything goes sweet and smooth!

 

BUT here is the thing: in the take up sequence, I glide FORWARD as well as up, even without any cyclic input.

 

Not a problem if what I want is forward flight. But what about a straight-vertical pick-up and hold in a hover? Intuition says I should apply a little aft cyclic, but that gets me nowhere. So I start looking through various videos of Gazelle take-offs, and it seems EVERYONE is just doing to glide/jump/lurch (depending on finesse) to forward flight! I've not seen any demo yet of a simple yet confident/solid pick-up DIRECTLY VERTICAL (no horizontal displacement) into hover.

 

The pick-up-directly-vertical-into-hover-and-hold took me a LONG time to get down in the Huey, but there were enough folks around who not only said it was possible but showed me how to do it (and to them I am eternally grateful). Looking for similar cues/help for the Gazelle ...

 

EDIT:

 

(1) There is on-going discussion here (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=180633) where someone posted some tracks that supposedly showed a pick-up into hover; however playing those tracks shows a rather comical lurch-forward-and-up-and-then-down-to-crash-and-burn-on-runway instead. I suspect that this is due to the borked replay system ( :( :( :( DCS ). So maybe a youtube/movie screen capture would be a better way to communicate replay for now?

 

(2) Parts of the aforementioned thread naturally turned into a discussion/disagreement about the flight model. While all the sides have valid points, I would suggest a perspective to work with for now is learning how to fly the DCS version of the Gazelle, regardless of whether or not its FM has problems?

 

I generally don't trim take off and just physically adjust the cyclic during take off... its sweet and its feels right.

When I transition to forward flight I simply fine trim forward and of I go smooth and sweet. I only use the fine trim in the gazelle as they (polychops) originally recommended fine trim for return to centre sticks and Click and trim for non centring sticks.

They told me how and why and I did done do.... no complaints from me.

 

The FM has problems and polychops will resolve them, but the general flight characteristics of a light weight chopper are superb... further... the Gazelle is the first front line, deep penetration stand alone attack helicopter (including multi player) to exist in DCS..... what is not to like about this machine!:D

HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate as standard. OpenXR user, Open XR tool kit disabled. Open XR was a massive upgrade for me.

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC at the mo. MT user  (2 - 5 fps gain). DCS run at 60Hz.

Vaicom user. Thrustmaster warthog user. MFG pedals with damper upgrade.... and what an upgrade! Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height with brail enhancements to ensure 100% button activation in VR.. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound.... you know when you are dropping into VRS with this bad boy.

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the Gazelle is the first front line, deep penetration stand alone attack helicopter (including multi player) to exist in DCS..... what is not to like about this machine!:D

 

Sorry for OT, but can you explain how all of that isn't equally true for the Ka-50? ;)

 

Anyway, I agree that the Gazelle is a fun helicopter to fly and a great module. :thumbup:

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Whilst the ka-50 is a sheer battle wagon capable of massive destruction in a single payload, the pilots situational awareness has nothing on the Gazelle.

The KA-50 simply does not have the RWR to allow the pilot to relax and prosecute his target like the Gazelle does.

 

The Gazelle, in the blink of an eye, can inform the pilot when air/ground radar superiority is present and searching. It can instantaneously tell the pilot when its most predatory opponents are in the vicinity and searching for it.

 

In effect the pilot has instantaneous feedback of where and who is an invisible radar threat and can take simple and easy low level avoidance to nullify or avoid the threat.

 

Believe me... I think the KA-50 is the greatest attack helicopter in existence but its situational awareness is laser detection (close range) or eye ball. I love it above all else..... but that god damn RWR is just worth its weight in F$%king gold!

 

The survivability of this nasty little runt in and amongst the battle field is truly superb.... it ain't got much to shoot but Fu*k yeah she is in the battle toe to toe!


Edited by Rogue Trooper

HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate as standard. OpenXR user, Open XR tool kit disabled. Open XR was a massive upgrade for me.

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC at the mo. MT user  (2 - 5 fps gain). DCS run at 60Hz.

Vaicom user. Thrustmaster warthog user. MFG pedals with damper upgrade.... and what an upgrade! Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height with brail enhancements to ensure 100% button activation in VR.. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound.... you know when you are dropping into VRS with this bad boy.

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Whilst the ka-50 is a sheer battle wagon capable of massive destruction in a single payload, the pilots situational awareness has nothing on the Gazelle.

 

Interesting points, thanks!

 

I disagree with some of them, but this is as far off-topic as I'm ready to venture. Maybe we'll get a chance to discuss this elsewhere. ;)

 

And yes, the Gazelle's RWR is quite a nice thing. :thumbup:

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It is a simple case of easing destruction of target.

The Gazelle simply allows freedom of thought, whereas the current KA-50 maintains an oppression or obsession to what I can see or what surrounds me, What is within my eyes view and what is demanded of me as a human being...... what can I see.

 

One is very liberating, the other is oppressive.

 

Believe me, if they stuck an RWR receiver below the left cabin light on the rear firewall........ This KA-50 would be hell on earth, independent and just plain vicious.... we deserve this KA-50.


Edited by Rogue Trooper

HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate as standard. OpenXR user, Open XR tool kit disabled. Open XR was a massive upgrade for me.

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC at the mo. MT user  (2 - 5 fps gain). DCS run at 60Hz.

Vaicom user. Thrustmaster warthog user. MFG pedals with damper upgrade.... and what an upgrade! Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height with brail enhancements to ensure 100% button activation in VR.. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound.... you know when you are dropping into VRS with this bad boy.

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LOL no worries, just glad I could help. ;)

 

If you have the time, could you give my track another go? Is it still as bugged as before?

 

I think it shouldn't matter what my or your control settings are, but who knows, maybe the FFB setting messed with the replay?

 

Well, would you believe it? The replay track went fine from start to finish ... at least, pretty much as you described! Nice flying, too!

 

So, it looks like that the FFB switch might be responsibly for a lot of unintended woes in some unexpected places. A little bit fuzzy whether it is technically a bug or user error (i.e., having the switch on when there is not, in fact, an FFB stick), but either way, good to know and good that the fix is so easy.

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Well, would you believe it? The replay track went fine from start to finish ... at least, pretty much as you described! Nice flying, too!

 

Huh! I wasn't sure this would be the case, but I had a hunch. Good to know and thanks for taking the time to check it. :thumbup:

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Generally speaking, ED has left us with a KA-50 that is so capable in terms of its fighter agility amongst heavy weight choppers. It possesses so much power... but they included a serious and fundamental flaw that keeps this module in the prototype phase.

 

The Gazelle is the first well thought out, combat ready and completely proven deep strike precision attack chopper that is capable of penetrating the front line battle field (as an individual unit).

It has all the equipment it requires to penetrate the battle field, avoid ground/air threats whilst still reserving man brain power to prosecute its target!

 

It is fundamentally the premier DCS precision attack helicopter.... and believe me... no Hind, in any guise, will take this from this little Runt!


Edited by Rogue Trooper

HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate as standard. OpenXR user, Open XR tool kit disabled. Open XR was a massive upgrade for me.

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC at the mo. MT user  (2 - 5 fps gain). DCS run at 60Hz.

Vaicom user. Thrustmaster warthog user. MFG pedals with damper upgrade.... and what an upgrade! Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height with brail enhancements to ensure 100% button activation in VR.. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound.... you know when you are dropping into VRS with this bad boy.

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