[FIXED] Incorrect Elevators?

Well the blister is in one regard relevant as only very late Mk. IXs had this type of blister. Actually I am fairly sure these blisters were introduced in October 1944.

 

By that time, the elevator would - mark my words here - most probably have been exchanged with the elongated horn style elevator.

Well the blister is in one regard relevant as only very late Mk. IXs had this type of blister. Actually I am fairly sure these blisters were introduced in October 1944.

 

By that time, the elevator would - mark my words here - most probably have been exchanged with the elongated horn style elevator.

 

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitfire-mk-ix-xi-and-xvi-variants-much-varied.html/3

 

I think you are right, if the a/c had the filter and wheell well blister then it would probably already have had the new elevator! Now how to prove this :book:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire_(early_Merlin-powered_variants)#C_type

 

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/concise-guide-to-spitfire-wing-types.html/2

 

The undercarriage mountings were redesigned and the undercarriage doors were bowed in cross section allowing the legs to sit lower in the wells, eliminating the upper-wing blisters over the wheel wells and landing gear pivot points.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Krupi

Well not new ailerons but new rudder! ;)

 

These blisters were necessary because by that time three separate stub axles could be fitted to the oleo strut to alter the caster and camber angles. This depended on the surface type from which the aircraft was operated.

Having issues finding any pictures of vokes and type 1 elevator...

 

This picture is interesting though

 

https://www.ww2incolor.com/britain/SPIT-MUD-CANNE.html

 

No wheel blister type 2 elevator

 

Again

 

http://www.sbap.be/events/2014/005wevelgem2014/016.jpg

Edited November 9, 2016 by Krupi

Well not new ailerons but new rudder! ;)

 

These blisters were necessary because by that time three separate stub axles could be fitted to the oleo strut to alter the caster and camber angles. This depended on the surface type from which the aircraft was operated.

 

Haha my bad, corrected :D

You mean new elevators right?

 

That was supposed to be a joke, didn't quite work out I think. :D

 

Main point is, it would be rather unlikely to see a c wing type spit with round (non kidney) tire bulges. I have so far only seen e wings with these blisters. But not impossible I guess.

Edited November 9, 2016 by rel4y

Picture says that is a Mark VIII?

 

Well spotted, however it is hard to tell if the rudder is pointed.

 

Most VIII were sent to the DAF

 

This one though :)

 

Edited November 9, 2016 by Krupi

That was supposed to be a joke, didn't quite work out I think. :D

 

Main point is, it would be rather unlikely to see a c wing type spit with tire bulges. I have so far only seen e wings with these blisters. But not impossible I guess.

 

Don't worry I got it, i guess that makes me a geek :D

 

Agreed :book:

 

This is a good photo of the D blister found on the Mk V

 

 

Seemingly removed on the original Type C wing

Edited November 9, 2016 by Krupi

 

IXc before Normandy perhaps :smilewink: no wheel blister + elevator type 2

Okay how about this one!

 

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/451-Spitfire/Spitfire_Mk_IXc_MH324_BQ_E_451_Squadron_Porett_c_1944

 

Before MH324 before MH434!

Key word here is 'perhaps' ;)

Here I have to agree with Krupi, talking by memory but that's a well known picture depicting how aircraft had to be painted before invasion in a matter of only a few days (2 to 4), hours in some cases, and using any kind of "tools" they found (usually used as a reminder to model makers about using masking tape :D). Nonetheless that scheme was used only for 1 to 2 weeks before they eliminated/reduced top invasion stripes leaving only lower wings ones and sometimes half the bottom fuselage, many times also in size from original 45cm wide each stripe. In a period no longer than a few months no invasion stripes were left at all except some reminders only distantly related to original stripes (the ones shown in the picture), like those only black stripes sometimes seen in some P-51. That picture is dated, to be safe, as much as 1 week before 6 June 1944, probably 4 or 5 due to the rush they show.

 

 

S!

 

P.S.: also no radio wires.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Ala13_ManOWar

Okay now we are getting somewhere MH432

 

 

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/NZ-Spitfire/Spitfire_LF_IXE_MH432_of_No_485_Sqn_being_taxied_out_by_Max_Collett

 

Vokes filter + Type 2 elevators

Why the focus on getting a Mk.IX that is correct for D-Day..?

Has it been stated that the DCS Spit will be a DD variant?

Why the focus on getting a Mk.IX that is correct for D-Day..?

Has it been stated that the DCS Spit will be a DD variant?

 

It is not about DD, this is about what was historically on the Spitfire LF IX and I think that by the time the filter and wheel blisters were on the type 2 elevators would have already been installed :huh:

That is at least not in my focus. After sleeping a night about it I have to say that the current mod spit is veeeery unlikeley to the point of being implausible. Let me explain why.

 

Since it sports the old style elevator it had to be produced before 13-9-43. That would have been maybe in the MH range of S/Ns, at latest at the end of the MH range all aircraft would be equipped with new type elevators from factory.

 

Now while the DCS variant would have been initially fitted with the old short carburettor intake, the new carburettor intake would be introduced 29-12-43 but wasnt made retrospective - except if the part was damaged. That means sometime in 44 the aircraft must have had some sort of air intake damage so it got replaced with the new large style one. This could not have been done on site, but rather at MU maybe GSU level.

 

The single cannon blister which the DCS variant shows was introduced 7-1-44, so again it must have been retrofit in 44.

 

Also if the spit was to carry bombs, by mid 1944 the wheels would have been exchanged to the tougher 4 spoke wheels.

 

Then there are the tire bulges which were introduced 10-44 and were not a common modification for previously produced aircraft but rather only seen on late produced factory state aircraft.

 

Now to come back to the elevator. I actually today found out something which mad me switch my mind. As said, it was introduced 13-9-43 and there was actually a kit released which allowed for squadron based modification. That means the aircraft would not have had to go to MU or GSU to perform this type of mod. Now the tire bulges make the DCS spit at least October 1944, it had to have been in MU for the intake fit some time in 44, it had to have been for the tire bulges in at MU and it still flies around with the old elevator which was released even as a field based kit over a year earlier is absolutely implausible not to say impossible.

 

So what are the consequences of this? I would say the new elevator is pretty much mandatory for this setup and I would recommend to get rid of the tire bulges. Then it would be a typical mid 44 LF Mk IXc.

 

If keeping the tire bulges and bombs are modelled it would be recommended to model at least the new elevator and switch to the 4 spoke wheels. This would make it a somewhat believable late 44 LF Mk IXc ground support spitbomber. Though most likely it would have had e wing type/ armament. Not the perfect choice in my opinion.

 

OK, that wraps it up for me on this topic. Now its EDs turn to decide.

Edited November 10, 2016 by rel4y

My thoughts exactly, I also read that the type 2 elevators came out as retrofit field mod.

 

This mod allowed the removal of a bob weight if I recall correctly, I will have to read the passage from Jeffrey Quills book again.

 

Glad we agree on this :thumbup:

Perfectly summarised, nailed it :thumbup:.

 

 

Then there are the tire bulges which were introduced 10-44 and were not a common modification for previously produced aircraft but rather only seen on late produced factory state aircraft

Mostly Mk XVI IIRC what I've read.

 

 

IMHO I would be fine with the early model features, as a non retrofitted model so type 1 elevator is quite a Spitfire characteristic. The only out of context thing for me is the wheel blister as far as our model still wears five spoked early wheels (the most appealing ones IMO, but that's just aesthetic) and blister (bulge if you want) was there to make room for late wheels with new toe-in to enhance concrete runways operation.

 

 

S!

Ok.

The combination of features and details are important.

There are several model kit manufacturers who made the mistake of researching museum aircraft. Museums are usually happy to use original parts, but rarely care about them being correct in relation to eachother. Same goes for flying warbirds. They are often a mix of features and even modern equipment.

 

In ED's case, I guess it's also a question of what variant they have performance data from.

I really hope they used data from an aircraft with a type 2 elevator it was a important mod from what I have read

There are several model kit manufacturers who made the mistake of researching museum aircraft

Tell me about it. I have a Hasegawa 1/48 Spit IX stopped since months ago after I discovered it's a mess regarding Spit IX features (including blisters it shouldn't). Sadly I already had worked and finished cockpit before hitting the info :cry:.

 

 

S!

Apologies for keeping on banging on about this...

 

Here is MH324, its has the Type 2 elevators and the pre Aerovee Vokes Filter... (This is the Aboukir Filter)

 

 

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/451-Spitfire/Spitfire_Mk_IXc_MH324_BQ_E_451_Squadron_Porett_c_1944

 

Compared to MA466, again Aboukir filter and Type 1 elevators probably built before the MH324.

 

 

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/451-Spitfire/451_Squadron_Poretta_May_1944_Spitfire_Mk_IXc_MA466_BQ_S?full=1

Edited November 12, 2016 by Krupi