Mirage 2000 missile firing

Hi everyone.

I have been researching the methods to fire Magic and Super S530 missiles with radar. I found that my research does not coincide with the actual mechanics of firing the missiles.

After selecting "Weapons SystemCMD FWD" I have found that the Magic will complete an initial lock on by itself which I understand but then it also automatically achieves full lock (Triangle appears)without me having to select:-

"Magic Slave/AG Designate/INS Position Update"

When using the Super S530 missile, again I select "Weapons SystemCMD FWD" and I achieve a full lock on the aircraft atuomatically and just press fire and the missile hits the target.

For experimentation, I turned off the radar in both cases and both types of missile hit their target in exactly the same manner.

I understand that if you place the "Flight Director Ring" onto the "Interception Flight Director" (small box) you have an optimal angle towards the target but I have found this to be not essential to hit a target.

I would not take the extra time to move my aircraft to achieve this if the missiles hit their targets anyway.

I appreciate any thoughts and I am very much a beginner trying to do things in the correct way.

Hello,

First, I think your question would've had more visibility in the dedicated sub-forum : https://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=322

For you questions, I think you are mixing a lot commands and that's why you are having trouble making it work.

After selecting "Weapons SystemCMD FWD" I have found that the Magic will complete an initial lock on by itself which I understand but then it also automatically achieves full lock (Triangle appears)without me having to select:-

"Magic Slave/AG Designate/INS Position Update"

So, here are a few things, "Weapons SystemCMD FWD" have two functions, cycling close-combat modes and displaying A-G weapons symbology on the VTH (HUD). It has little to do with the magic missiles.

The magic missiles are infrared guided missiles that are autonomous for targeting and guidance, so they don't need the radar in order to lock or guide to a target. The magic lock is represented by a circle on the target and a continuous tone, the radar lock is represented by a square on the target and when the radar and magic are locked on the same target you get a triangle.

What "Magic Slave/AG Designate/INS Position Update" does, is tell the magic head to look where the radar is looking. It's not the only way to have a magic locked on a target, if a target crosses the bore-sight of the missile seeker (+ on the VTH), the magic will automatically lock onto it.

So from what you said, you radar locked the target with the close-combat modes and, when it crossed the magic bore-sight, you then got the radar+magic lock symbology.

When using the Super S530 missile, again I select "Weapons SystemCMD FWD" and I achieve a full lock on the aircraft atuomatically and just press fire and the missile hits the target.

 

 

For experimentation, I turned off the radar in both cases and both types of missile hit their target in exactly the same manner.

As said above, the magic is able to do that as it is autonomous when fired but the 530D require the shooting aircraft to maintain lock until impact. I don't know what happened to your missile here.

It might be that the target did not move and the missile continued to the predicted impact point and was close enough so the proximity fuze got triggered.

I understand that if you place the "Flight Director Ring" onto the "Interception Flight Director" (small box) you have an optimal angle towards the target but I have found this to be not essential to hit a target.

I would not take the extra time to move my aircraft to achieve this if the missiles hit their targets anyway.

As you said this is not necessary, you can shoot at a target up to 60° on the sides if you want to, as long as your magic is locked to the target or your radar is locked if you are shooting a 530.

If you are shooting your missiles close to the target, it's not going to change a lot of things, because the missile will still have plenty of energy to reach the target after the turn, but if you are shooting a target that is around max weapon range, the energy the missile uses to make the turn might make it miss the target.

I hope this helped, if you have more questions, you can post them here or send me a PM.

Good luck :).

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my query.

So if I understand you correctly, it is possible to get a full lock on with Magic missiles without having to press the "Magic Slave" button and just using the "Weapons SystemCMD FWD" action.

Regarding the 530, I achieved full lock on and retained the lock and killed the target without having the radar on and obviously only using the "Weapons SystemCMD FWD"button to achieve the kill.

If this is possible then ok, but I thought that having the radar on and using the TDC was the correct way to perform a kill.

Having the radar off and achieving kills with both missile types still gives me some concern when these are supposed to be radar guided missiles?

Your thoughts appreciated and many thanks again.

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my query.

So if I understand you correctly, it is possible to get a full lock on with Magic missiles without having to press the "Magic Slave" button and just using the "Weapons SystemCMD FWD" action.

 

Regarding the 530, I achieved full lock on and retained the lock and killed the target without having the radar on and obviously only using the "Weapons SystemCMD FWD"button to achieve the kill.

If this is possible then ok, but I thought that having the radar on and using the TDC was the correct way to perform a kill.

 

Having the radar off and achieving kills with both missile types still gives me some concern when these are supposed to be radar guided missiles?

 

Your thoughts appreciated and many thanks again.

Again, I think there is a lot you are missing.

Magic II : Infrared missile, integrated seeker, does not need the radar.

Super 530D : Radar semi-active missile, needs the radar locked on the target from launch to impact.

There is no such thing as "full lock" on the magic, your missile is either locked or not locked.

"Weapons SystemCMD FWD" turns on the radar and put it in close-combat auto-lock mode.

You can get a kill with the magic without radar, but you can't get a 530 kill without the radar.

Hello,

Sorry to be so pedantic. I understand the magic does not need radar but it can be used with radar assist and when you have the triangle come up automatically using the weapons SystemCMD FWD you can kill the target.

Only having to use Weapons SystemCMD FWD to lock on and fire a 530 without even having the radar switched on seems to go against the research manuals and videos I have reviewed but I am more than happy to take your information.

I have not researched the dogfighting technique regarding radar but it seems to me that you would be using your radar at least initially.

Forum questions and answers can get misinterpreted and I am not the best at using forums as you've gathered but nice of you to help me out.

kind Regards

Only having to use Weapons SystemCMD FWD to lock on and fire a 530 without even having the radar switched on seems to go against the research manuals and videos I have reviewed but I am more than happy to take your information.

Please, read again. Your radar is not switched off!

"Weapons SystemCMD FWD" turns on the radar and put it in close-combat auto-lock mode.