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Some issues with Sea Dragon Mission 9


VC

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I was playing Mission 9 of the Sea Dragon campaign today, the one where you have to defend the carrier battle group from a swarm of angry Hornets. Overall, well designed mission, challenging and fun, I would like to play it a few times as practice... but... there are some elements that don't make sense:

 

 

- take off from Batumi. Huh?! No scramble from the carrier? OK

- wait, Batumi is hostile, there's an AA gun right at the end of the runway, both my wingmen are fireballs on the tarmac before I'm even wheels up, lucky it went for them not me. What the?!

- strike incoming to carrier, tons of Harpoons in the air... I'm nowhere near... because I'm still in transit from Batumi! So... why is the take-off there again?

 

 

 

I got into some action eventually, and all but one of the Harpoons was shot down by the ships, but by the time I was done with a dogfight and chasing some Hornets that were running away, I didn't have enough fuel to make the landing. I called it a close win ;)

 

 

 

Is the mission meant to be like this? Shall I stick it in the mission editor and try to correct some of these issues myself?


Edited by VC

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I was playing Mission 9 of the Sea Dragon campaign today, the one where you have to defend the carrier battle group from a swarm of angry Hornets.

 

 

There are some elements that don't make sense:

 

- take off from Batumi. Huh?! No scramble from the carrier? OK

 

Is the mission meant to be like this?

 

Had a look at it, mission wasn't like this originally, a bug seems to have crepted in and the players flight is no longer locking to the carrier as a take off position, it is going to the next available airfield (Batumi) instead.

 

After a bit of testing, this behavior is due to:

 

  • The players flight having 3 aircraft assigned for take off, but the carrier (Kuznitsov) only allows 2 take off positions now instead of the 3 that it should allow, the game incorrectly automatically moves it to the next available airport that can support 3 plane flight (Batumi).

A Work around fix is to:

 

  • Make the players flight 2 aircraft only.
  • Increase the Players Wingman flight from 1 to 2 aircraft and change its take off start time a minute or two after the actual mission start time.

Also noticed:

 

  • AI Su-33 can't take off with out crashing, Head wind and carrier forward speed no longer help with extra lift and speed.

Will report and and try to get these things corrected.

 

Regards, Ian.

Asus p877v-pro, Intel I7 3770k 4.2ghz, 32gb Ripjaw X ram, Nvidia RTX-2070 Super, Samsung 32" TV, Saitek x52 pro Joystick and Combat rudder pedals, TrackIR 5, Win8.1 x64 with SSD and SSHD protected by (Avast AV).

 

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Thank you for the detailed reply, that makes sense. I might try the workaround. I did notice later in the mission that I have a "wingman 4" that took off from the carrier, but he got off the ship fine. He also ran out of fuel though, and quite a bit before me.

 

Spotted this "moved to nearest airbase that takes 3" in an earlier mission too, the one where you have to co-ordinate bombing Kutaisi. But in that one it didn't break the mission (actually that one is quite easy to win even with wrong start position).

 

Keep us updated if this gets worked on or hotfixed :)

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Thank you for the detailed reply, that makes sense. I might try the workaround. I did notice later in the mission that I have a "wingman 4" that took off from the carrier, but he got off the ship fine. He also ran out of fuel though, and quite a bit before me.

 

Spotted this "moved to nearest airbase that takes 3" in an earlier mission too

 

Keep us updated if this gets worked on or hotfixed :)

 

No worries, Thanks for letting me know, I will have to check them all again, mission 10 has the same problem also. ;-(

 

The positioning of the aircraft on the aircraft carrier is fixed internally already, I can now place them in all 3 spots for the players flight of 3 aircraft and have the 4th wingman spawn 2 minutes later on the longer runway, not to say it will stay that way before release.

 

Aircraft taking off from long runway in position 3 can carry a little extra weight, as they can gather more take off speed in the extra distance.

 

The AI su-33 take off is still borked by the boat moving at speed, they only take off if approx 2500-3000kg lighter than they use to be and boat is stopped, so awaiting news/fix on that issue.

 

The amount of fuel is a problem since the PFM came about, as in real life Su-33 they can't take off at maximum weight (33000kg), 30000kg for pos 1 and 2 with (85-90% fuel and weapons) and 32000kg for pos 3 with (96-100% fuel and weapons) is about the best you can get. As for running out of fuel, there is a tanker in missions for resupply, but AI in general is to dumb to break off attacks and refuel when they are bingo.

 

Regards, Ian.

Asus p877v-pro, Intel I7 3770k 4.2ghz, 32gb Ripjaw X ram, Nvidia RTX-2070 Super, Samsung 32" TV, Saitek x52 pro Joystick and Combat rudder pedals, TrackIR 5, Win8.1 x64 with SSD and SSHD protected by (Avast AV).

 

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So has either the ship speed or the loadout changed in some of the missions? Or is there just a bug in the interaction at the current speeds/loadouts? I also played Mission 5 (evening take-off F-16 intercept) and had no issues getting airborne, AI followed fine too.

 

Edit: I noticed the tanker but it's probably not that useful. Mission events unfold quite quickly, especially that air strike, by the time you fly to it and fill up those Hornets are RTB.


Edited by VC

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So has either the ship speed or the loadout changed in some of the missions? Or is there just a bug in the interaction at the current speeds/loadouts? I also played Mission 5 (evening take-off F-16 intercept) and had no issues getting airborne, AI followed fine too.

 

No change in ship speed doing 50+ KPH, but AI planes taking off, don't get that speed added to there initial speed but more like it gets substracted from there initial speed, so it is like 0 or -50 KPH, Where as if the boat is stationary the ai plane gets more speed to take off, no difference on the stats bar of speed, looks the same on take off, so its a wierd one.

 

No change in loadouts either, still same overall take off weight.

 

Checked all missions now, and some AI was most likely light enough to be able to take off under problem conditions, remember one.

 

I even tried taking off in some of the missions with 100 fuel and weapons around the 32000kg mark and I crashed every time, that would be in mission 5 also, so I don't know how you managed that, well done. Mind you I am running an internal DCS test version so that might be different to your stable or beta.

 

Regarding the tankers, they have to be put out of the way in general, other wise they always get shot down, I tried to program them so that they come into the path of you returning back to the carrier, later in the mission, hopefully after you have taken out the objectives.

 

Regards, Ian.


Edited by MadDog-IC

Asus p877v-pro, Intel I7 3770k 4.2ghz, 32gb Ripjaw X ram, Nvidia RTX-2070 Super, Samsung 32" TV, Saitek x52 pro Joystick and Combat rudder pedals, TrackIR 5, Win8.1 x64 with SSD and SSHD protected by (Avast AV).

 

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  • 2 months later...

I am stuck on this mission too. Any advice on how to complete it? Issues I am facing:

 

-I spawn on hostile batumi but manage to get airbone. Wingmen may or may not make it.

 

-There are 16 F18s and they totally wreck the 7 odd Flankers on our side. I don't think that fight is winnable. Last time I tried, our side lost 4 flankers while shooting down none of them! I couldn't even get to the engagement area in time.

 

-The enemy planes just RTB and there is no way I can get to them. After losing all flankers, I somehow managed to down 2 F18s but the rest returned to their carriers and I cant chase them due to SAM cover.

 

Please advise!

 

Also, issue number 2 is true for many missions. AI vs AI, flankers always lose to the Americans even when outnumbering them. Is that by design or maybe some bug?

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I am stuck on this mission too. Any advice on how to complete it?

 

Issues I am facing:

-I spawn on hostile batumi but manage to get airbone. Wingmen may or may not make it.

 

Updated campaign that corrects the Batumi start problem, you will have to over write the existing mission sets with this:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3303252/

 

-There are 16 F18s and they totally wreck the 7 odd Flankers on our side. I don't think that fight is winnable. Last time I tried, our side lost 4 flankers while shooting down none of them! I couldn't even get to the engagement area in time.

I suspect that once you take off from the carrier in fixed missions, some of these issues will resolve, it would help if the AI flight wasn't so useless.

 

To win you need to kill the Anti-ship assault as your first priority as they will RTB quickly once they have let their missiles off at range and the accompanying fighter sweep flights are there to stop you obviously but should be a secondary objective, either way both types of flights have to be killed.

 

-The enemy planes just RTB and there is no way I can get to them. After losing all flankers, I somehow managed to down 2 F18s but the rest returned to their carriers and I cant chase them due to SAM cover.

Once again, you should fair better when starting from the carrier, timing is everything, but I have no words of wisdom for how to win the mission, try different tactics, missile payload.

 

AI vs AI, flankers always lose to the Americans even when outnumbering them. Is that by design or maybe some bug?

This issues is probably related to sub par missile performance, I have seen reported in other posts about the russian missiles being a problem.

 

Regards, Ian.


Edited by MadDog-IC

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-There are 16 F18s and they totally wreck the 7 odd Flankers on our side. I don't think that fight is winnable. Last time I tried, our side lost 4 flankers while shooting down none of them! I

 

...

 

Also, issue number 2 is true for many missions. AI vs AI, flankers always lose to the Americans even when outnumbering them. Is that by design or maybe some bug?

 

That's weird. After I solved the Batumi spawn problem I found this mission to be a complete cake walk. The AI was swatting hornets so efficiently I barely scraped 2 kills myself. Maybe its due to the random skill the enemy AI spawn with?

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Updated campaign that corrects the Batumi start problem, you will have to over write the existing mission sets with this:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3303252/

 

Wow, you created that patch just today. Now that's fast. Thank you so much!

 

I am able to hold my own against US fighters but all my AI allies just get wrecked. Yesterday in some other campaign mission the Russian AI lost 9 fighters and managed to down just 1 of 4 US F14s!

 

 

That's weird. After I solved the Batumi spawn problem I found this mission to be a complete cake walk. The AI was swatting hornets so efficiently I barely scraped 2 kills myself. Maybe its due to the random skill the enemy AI spawn with?

 

AI spawns with random skill? I don't know why but I have the worst luck with these missions where I have to rely on allies. Solo missions are so much less headache. The K/D ratio is so bad for the Russians. I think I actually took some screenshots because it was so ridiculous.

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I am able to hold my own against US fighters but all my AI allies just get wrecked. Yesterday in some other campaign mission the Russian AI lost 9 fighters and managed to down just 1 of 4 US F14s!

 

 

Those F-14s and those special missiles, I remember the missions well, I tried for days to make the russian AI able to survive those darn missiles, but alas you can't make dumb AI fly like real humans that know how to avoid a missile (Notching,etc), so had to settle for a sub par solution.

 

AI spawns with random skill? I don't know why but I have the worst luck with these missions where I have to rely on allies. Solo missions are so much less headache. The K/D ratio is so bad for the Russians. I think I actually took some screenshots because it was so ridiculous.

 

Yes in mission correcting and testing over the different era's of DCS 1.2, 1.5, 2.5 I have seen the AI getting dumber and dumber with each major update, it is heart breaking to see, and a night mare to try and get missions to work realistically.

 

You can literally take a mission that works perfectly well in DCS 1.2 and 1.5 and put it into 2.5 and it doesn't work any more due to the trees and Line of Sight blocks, aircraft crash into the ground during maneuvers and can't fly low between valleys, new lighting system creates issues with missile use, Missile flight parameters change making missiles useless, advanced waypoint commands stop working, the list goes on.

 

Regards, Ian.

Asus p877v-pro, Intel I7 3770k 4.2ghz, 32gb Ripjaw X ram, Nvidia RTX-2070 Super, Samsung 32" TV, Saitek x52 pro Joystick and Combat rudder pedals, TrackIR 5, Win8.1 x64 with SSD and SSHD protected by (Avast AV).

 

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And all those ai problems from 2.5 onwards are due to a lack of imrpoving the ai to get to grips with the increased environmental fidelity that comes with 2.5? Has there been any development done on ai over the last 2 years to mitigate that?

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Hey MadDog, sorry for being a bother but it seems like mission 10 (War at Sea) has some issue where my bombers cant take out the US CV. Even if all my bombers and SEAD planes survive, they are unable to take out the CV. They manage to take out the cruiser only. All their missiles and the ship launched cruise missiles get taken down.

 

BTW, I was a bit surprised to hear an Aussie accent coming from the Kuznetsov. Nice! ;p

 

@VC, did you manage to complete this mission?

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Hey MadDog, sorry for being a bother but it seems like mission 10 (War at Sea) has some issue where my bombers cant take out the US CV.

 

Even if all my bombers and SEAD planes survive, they are unable to take out the CV. They manage to take out the cruiser only. All their missiles and the ship launched cruise missiles get taken down.

 

Once again, this will most likely be due to ever changing weapon effectiveness between patches of the SEAD missile and Anti-Ship missiles, the strength of the ships has often changed also. If too many SEAD missiles miss their targets, then their defensive missiles are far more effective at taking out your battle groups attack.

 

Even with AI testing flight flying the whole mission, there was about a 1 in 3 chance of completing the mission, I can't do any more to improve the mission, I have constantly rewritten the attack commands, and most failures come from missiles not doing enough damage, or completely missing their targets.

 

Its a hard mission and requires some luck to win, only hope is that your attack group flood the enemy with so many missiles at the same time they can't cope, so if your SEAD and BOMBERS get intercepted and delayed in anyway and their firing is delayed to the point of only small individual attacks at a time, it is a certain failure.

 

BTW, I was a bit surprised to hear an Aussie accent coming from the Kuznetsov. Nice! ;p

Speaks good english for a russian, heh ;-)

 

Regards, Ian.

Asus p877v-pro, Intel I7 3770k 4.2ghz, 32gb Ripjaw X ram, Nvidia RTX-2070 Super, Samsung 32" TV, Saitek x52 pro Joystick and Combat rudder pedals, TrackIR 5, Win8.1 x64 with SSD and SSHD protected by (Avast AV).

 

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And all those ai problems from 2.5 onwards are due to a lack of impoving the ai to get to grips with the increased environmental fidelity that comes with 2.5?

 

Has there been any development done on ai over the last 2 years to mitigate that?

 

The AI has been tweaked along the way I am sure, but each patch brings new challenges as with every aspect of DCS.

 

Regards, Ian.

Asus p877v-pro, Intel I7 3770k 4.2ghz, 32gb Ripjaw X ram, Nvidia RTX-2070 Super, Samsung 32" TV, Saitek x52 pro Joystick and Combat rudder pedals, TrackIR 5, Win8.1 x64 with SSD and SSHD protected by (Avast AV).

 

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Yea, more bad news. it seems the latest patch has again messed with something. Both my wingmen are crashing now during takeoff from the carrier.

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  • 7 months later...

As of September 2019.

 

 

 

I have now twice cleaned up all the blue flights (Except SEADs) and I still did not get a 'mission success" !?

 

 

What am I missing ? All 4 ships are untouched. SEADs are not listed as triggers that contribute to mission success but still no joy...

 

 

:unsure::unsure:

 

 

Thanks

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