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Old 07-01-2018, 09:39 PM   #1
Focha
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Default Flight Model Again V2

Hi all,

So its been quite a while since I've first posted this:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=184568

I returned to DCS (2.5.2.18736) a few days ago and started up you Gazelle.

To my surprise, many of the problems I've stated about helicopters flight dynamics in my earlier post, are still present in the Gazelle version I've flown today.

It seems now that you helicopter has some sort of FWB by the feel of it... helicopters like Gazelle, don't fly like what you are depicting in your module, I will state this again.

Right now, and only to speak about simple things, when you start a turn with cyclic (level off) the helicopter just maintains the bank angle when you return cyclic to neutral position... Totally FBW for sure (this was without any AP or servos engaged).

Same goes for pitch... which obviously its not how a helicopter is supposed to fly.

So, my question is: Is FM going to be effectively revised? - I really don't care if you guys tell me that some army pilots validate it, because obviously, if they validated that, they are wrong too (whoever they are).

I can talk to them if you want, just PM me.

Again, I have around 10 years of RL helicopter flying, having flown a number of types (from R-22/44, to AS350 to more complex ones AS365/B222/AS355 etc) and I can assure, although every helicopter is different, none should have the dynamics Gazelle is showing off.

If you want, I can review FM further more, but only the fact that I realised what I posted, I immediately just went off.

Please note that you have made an incredible job with all the modelled versions of Gazelle and its systems, but the FM is a no-go for me.

Hope you can revise it and make it on par with the rest of the module quality.

Kind regards.
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Last edited by Focha; 07-02-2018 at 12:37 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 07-04-2018, 07:19 AM   #2
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+1
Just bought the Gazelle and after few minutes flying, in/out from hovering to ETL is clear that something is not right. It's true that I'm not RL pilot but have strong passion in helicopter physics and experienced with other DCS modules and 407 from xplane.


Polychop please share your idea.
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:35 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Focha View Post
Right now, and only to speak about simple things, when you start a turn with cyclic (level off) the helicopter just maintains the bank angle when you return cyclic to neutral position... Totally FBW for sure (this was without any AP or servos engaged).

Same goes for pitch... which obviously its not how a helicopter is supposed to fly.
I don't even understand that. What should the helicopter do?
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:51 AM   #4
Haukka81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slant View Post
I don't even understand that. What should the helicopter do?


Helicopters are not stabile without somekind autopilot, etc...


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Old 07-04-2018, 08:58 AM   #5
Don Rudi
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+1
I don't get it. Everytime the FM seems to be good, it gets "reviewed" and is broken afterwards. The Gazelle is my favourite module by far, but this constant great-horrible-cycle really spoils it.
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Old 07-04-2018, 09:22 AM   #6
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What stick are you using?
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Old 07-04-2018, 10:05 AM   #7
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Well as long as you approach the ground and your ROD increases instead of decreases the FM is on par.
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Old 07-04-2018, 10:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephyrius View Post
What stick are you using?
Saitek X-55 here. The Gazelle felt really good, but since the last physics update she behaves as the OP described it. Put her in a turn, let go of the stick and she stays in that turn.
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Old 07-04-2018, 10:54 AM   #9
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So the behaviour described in the OP is happening at my end also. If AP is engaged, she returns to a stable flighpath (albeit slower than the MI-8 for instance) when one lets go of the stick. With AP off or idividual channels disabled she holds that bank angle, not sure about ptich though.

I guess to judge that issue, we needed to know how exactly the Gazelle is designed and what exactly the AP does.

Questions concerning helicopter control and flight dynamics design:

1.) Provided a helicopter has a selfcentering cyclic (and force trim or such needed to be engaged separately), would said helicopter generally be designed in such a way, that the swash-plate returns to its neutral (or trimmed) position after you deflect the cyclic and let go off it? Or are there designs where only 'positiv' deflections alter the swash-plate angle? Like to bank left you have to deflect the cyclic to the left but there is no input registered on the way back to neutral position, and to counter that bank you actually have to deflect 'positiv' to the right, just to bring back the helo into level flight?

2.) Generally; if a helicopter is banking to one side, and the cyclic is returned to neutral (and thus the swash-plate is in its neutral (or trimmed) position), will the helicopter return to level flight (no bank) on its own?


Again, if the devs would take the time to enlighten us in detail how the Gazelle's control and flight dynamics are designed, and why we see certain behaviour with AP on and off, that would sure help a lot and leave us not guessing withou haveing all the facts.

Last edited by sc_neo; 07-04-2018 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc_neo View Post
me.

Again, I have around 10 years of RL helicopter flying, having flown a number of types (from R-22/44, to AS350 to more complex ones AS365/B222/AS355 etc) and I can assure, although every helicopter is different, none should have the dynamics Gazelle is showing off.
None of these are the helicoptor and system you are complaining about. We need feedback from people who have flown this exact military helicoptor.

I'm sure you have some valid points, but.I would imagine the autopilot features make massive difference to how an aircraft behaves.
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