Takeoff/Landing with Gyro sight

I find it hard to keep a look on both runway and the ball. Is it normal to use gyro sight and fixed cross (masked) for takeoff? I find it easier also in terms of rudder corrections. What do you think?

At least for landing (p59) :

During landing, the Gyro Selector switch should be set to FIXED to prevent damage to the gyro.

Get your head out of the cockpit.

Use external visual references for take-off and landing.

@Bill If you were to fly a civilian aircraft it is not going to have a gun sight (or a HUD for that matter). ;)

How do you land the planes in ROF?

Get your head out of the cockpit.

 

Use external visual references for take-off and landing.

Well in his defense, IRL your brain is much better at correcting for head position related view angle shift and stuff simply because it has direct feedback from your joints asf. The gunsight has the advantage of being collimated to infinity and therefore always indicating the direction that the planes centerline is pointing to. I don't use it either and you can get used to it. however, it does add a big cue that a game simply can not give you otherwise.

Get your head out of the cockpit.

 

Use external visual references for take-off and landing.

Most runways are void of external cues. Could you post a quick track with what to look at?

Most runways are void of external cues. Could you post a quick track with what to look at?

clouds. sky features. anything thats out there. combined with the end of the runway. i personally use clouds for this. but i understand your argument on clear sky days and there being no clouds. i always fly with some clouds though.

Bill, take a look at the solo practice take-off mission. If I remember correctly it has some cloud cover set. If you use similar settings for other practice missions you will have some decent clouds to use as reference.

Bill, take a look at the solo practice take-off mission. If I remember correctly it has some cloud cover set. If you use similar settings for other practice missions you will have some decent clouds to use as reference.

will do. thanks fan.

Practice, Practice and Practice!

And getting rid of bad habbits created by the use of other simulators, where control inputs are, for instance, irrealistically sluggish.

I never look at the turn coordinator during takeoff or landing. I use external refernces (the end of the rw during final approach), the rw edges during takeoff, and I have leraned to anticipate the drifting, even under severe x-winds.. It took it's time, but now when I look back and think about my first reaction when I crashed on my first takeoff, 2nd takeoff, 3rd... I can only remember the explanations and advices given by Yo-Yo on another post about the difficulties felt by new p51d virtual pilots ;-)

I still find take off challenging - it definitely takes my total concentration - I don't practise full TO to LDG missions often enough - starting and stopping missions in the air too often.

One thought on TO's, you're more technical than I am Bill so you'll no doubt know this already, but on the long concrete strips in DCS World at the moment, 50MP (generally) is enough and reduces torque.

But practise does indeed make ALL the difference IMO - when I've practised circuits in the past it has become second nature but as soon as I do something else like purely dogfighting, or flying the Shark - it goes away quite quickly - it definitely becomes quite a lot harder quite quickly.

Like Jcomm I also don't worry about the ball on TO's and LDG, the ground references do that for you - & someone here suggested that during TO or LDG roll, looking at the 'No Hold' pad whilst monitoring the runway edge geometry / picture, in your peripheral vision, gives a good sense of motion relative to the centre line - it helped me - although I still use my original technique of looking at the junction between the right side of the cockpit window and the runway edge in combination with this method.

Clouds are not a good thing to use as an indicator, because clouds can move. Moreover, sometimes there are no clouds. Like Jcomm, I use the edges of my vision on takeoff--my eyes are pointed at the middle of my monitor, but my concentration is on the left and right sides, where I can see the terrain to the sides of the aircraft's cowling.

Like Jcomm, I use the edges of my vision on takeoff--my eyes are pointed at the middle of my monitor, but my concentration is on the left and right sides, where I can see the terrain to the sides of the aircraft's cowling.

Yes.

You focus on one point and your attention wanders around in the peripherals of your visual field.

Most racedrivers use this technique and I guess pilots use it, too. Especially fighter pilots.

Especially during a dogfight I don't look at my gauges.

I stay focused and look at my opponent and my attention shortly checks manifoldpressure, temperature or speed.

It is similar for take-off and landing.

I look ahead and my attention checks the sides of the runway.

Once the plane is in the air, I take a short glance at the compass and examine my climb rate and the turn/bank indicator.

To be able to let your attention wander around is a great advantage.

Especially when you get into a dogfight with lot's of opponents ;)

And it is not that hard to learn.

Yes.

You focus on one point and your attention wanders around in the peripherals of your visual field.

 

Most racedrivers use this technique and I guess pilots use it, too. Especially fighter pilots.

Especially during a dogfight I don't look at my gauges.

I stay focused and look at my opponent and my attention shortly checks manifoldpressure, temperature or speed.

 

It is similar for take-off and landing.

I look ahead and my attention checks the sides of the runway.

Once the plane is in the air, I take a short glance at the compass and examine my climb rate and the turn/bank indicator.

 

To be able to let your attention wander around is a great advantage.

Especially when you get into a dogfight with lot's of opponents ;)

And it is not that hard to learn.

Yes, although in real life it generally works as more of a constant scanning process. You scan through your gauges, you scan the sky, everything about it is identify, cross-check, evaluate, act, repeat. This all goes (or should go at any rate) in a constant cycle throughout the flight. It is also important to be one step ahead of your aircraft. If something happens and you get caught up with it, it will probably distract you from something far more important. This is especially critical during instrument flight where procedures and workload management can get very hectic if not kept on top of early on.

If you are padlocked, that it different, but in that case, you are paying attention to your bandit, and your bandit ONLY (for the most part anyways, you still have things like AoA, stall warnings, GPWS, etc.). You still have to maneuver your aircraft, but in order to do that, first you have to defeat his weapons ;).

So yeah, don't get fixated on any one point for too long. This could have terribly disastrous consequences.

Yah, fook the ball and all them other thingamajiggies ;) Well of course you should be aware of your slip angle and correct / trim as needed, but a periodical instrument scan should take care of that. Because what you absolutely must take into account at all times is OUTSIDE the cockpit and how your crate fits in THERE, not your fancy indicators...

There's a guy I know who says your head buried in gauges is akin to said appendage buried in other far more smelly places, only worse. And right he is too :D

Yes, although in real life it generally works as more of a constant scanning process.

Hmm... it's not a scanning process where your focus wanders around.

I'm talking about visual perception outside the central focus area of sight.

Peripheral vision is always a little bit blurred. One will never be able to see all the details. Important is a sensitization for the environment and their perception.

Peripheral vision is something quite natural.

You can practice it and can then see much more "information".

e.g. the position of the needle of an indicator instrument.

The other way around - to get back at Bill's question - you look at your gyro and your peripheral perception takes care of the runways left and right margins.

I know... sounds complex - but hey ... Mates we (virtually) fly a plane in three-dimensional space without thinking about it. :)

Only an additional qualification.:smartass::D

Hmm... it's not a scanning process where your focus wanders around.

 

I'm talking about visual perception outside the central focus area of sight.

Peripheral vision is always a little bit blurred. One will never be able to see all the details. Important is a sensitization for the environment and their perception.

 

Peripheral vision is something quite natural.

You can practice it and can then see much more "information".

e.g. the position of the needle of an indicator instrument.

 

The other way around - to get back at Bill's question - you look at your gyro and your peripheral perception takes care of the runways left and right margins.

I know... sounds complex - but hey ... Mates we (virtually) fly a plane in three-dimensional space without thinking about it. :)

Only an additional qualification.:smartass::D

Yeah, except that is wrong. Your focus is supposed to drift precisely because the peripheral vision, although useful, is unreliable at best. You focus also NEEDS to drift because you should be constantly swapping back to your airspeed, VSI, altimeter, and back outside. Simply staring at one spot in space is a hazard, PERIOD. Flying is like having a case of controlled ADHD. You never let your eyes rest on any one sector of your scan for more than a few seconds.

 

There's a guy I know who says your head buried in gauges is akin to said appendage buried in other far more smelly places, only worse. And right he is too :D

^^ made my day. heheheheeeee :megalol:

I still find take off challenging - it definitely takes my total concentration - I don't practise full TO to LDG missions often enough - starting and stopping missions in the air too often.

 

One thought on TO's, you're more technical than I am Bill so you'll no doubt know this already, but on the long concrete strips in DCS World at the moment, 50MP (generally) is enough and reduces torque.

 

But practise does indeed make ALL the difference IMO - when I've practised circuits in the past it has become second nature but as soon as I do something else like purely dogfighting, or flying the Shark - it goes away quite quickly - it definitely becomes quite a lot harder quite quickly.

 

Like Jcomm I also don't worry about the ball on TO's and LDG, the ground references do that for you - & someone here suggested that during TO or LDG roll, looking at the 'No Hold' pad whilst monitoring the runway edge geometry / picture, in your peripheral vision, gives a good sense of motion relative to the centre line - it helped me - although I still use my original technique of looking at the junction between the right side of the cockpit window and the runway edge in combination with this method.

50 MP is about enough. One thing I'm confused about, rudder correction once over 90 mph. Should I let go rudder IF I'm fully forward (nose down) or still hold it?

A term from real P-51 pilots is "Feet Alive!" when ever the 51 is on the ground. Meaning the rudder requires constant adjustment. So its not a set to specific location and go until this point or that. The preset rudder trim counters some of the rudder required for takeoff but you still need to input small rudder corrections throughout the entire time the aircraft is in motion basically. Obviously more noticeable on the ground then in the air.

You've definitely got to stay on top of the rudders all the way - it gets very 'busy' a soon as the tail lifts, and stays that way until you're up, and are able to re-trim.

Fast Feet or 'Feet alive' as Shahdoh says.

When it all goes to plan and everything's balanced it's great, but this is most definitely difficult and does take lots of practise - I'm only proficient when I practise A LOT.

The manual says to turn on the fixed sight for take off I believe..they dont want the gyro sight on for landing or take off as it could be damaged from a rough taxi/takeoff/landing.

I think a big key to a smooth take off is controlled application of the throttle..nice and steady and easy, otherwise your fighting the torque from the very beginning of the take off roll and your chasing the plane all over from the very start.