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AIM-7 Disable loft please


Nightwolf

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As of right now, both versions of the AIM-7 always loft in the F-15C currently (outside of the auto loft-disable range, I think it's 5nm?). This makes it very difficult to use in a lot of scenarios where you really don't want loft. Many people have reverted to carrying AIM-7Fs in weapons-restricted missions without AMRAAMs because they don't loft. Please either make it so that sparrows don't loft by default on the eagle or add a bindable control to enable/disable lofting such as the cage/uncage button in the hornet.

"Fighter pilots have ice in their veins. They don't have emotions. They think, anticipate. They know that fear and other concerns cloud your mind from what's going on and what you should be involved in." -Buzz Aldrin

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I've sent some new loft logic to ED; maybe they'll use it, in which case you won't have to worry about loft any more. At least in theory.

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I've sent some new loft logic to ED; maybe they'll use it, in which case you won't have to worry about loft any more. At least in theory.

 

Well that would be great but even so a simple keybind would seemingly be a quick easy temporary fix for a very frustrating and common problem

"Fighter pilots have ice in their veins. They don't have emotions. They think, anticipate. They know that fear and other concerns cloud your mind from what's going on and what you should be involved in." -Buzz Aldrin

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I disagree with default off. Lofting is the only thing that makes the AIM-7 useful. I also haven't really seen it cause many issues with Pk, though I haven't flown online and I imagine that a human pilot might be able to take advantage of short range loft more easily than the AI.

 

 

An option would be great to enable/disable would be fine, but defaulting to off would be terrible.

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

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I've been playing extensively on Blue Flag Caucasus which has only AIM-7s and I can gaurantee you they are incredibly easy to defeat when they loft, not to mention it takes almost twice as long to reach the target. Nose on at 6-7 miles? If yours lofts and theirs doesn't, you're dead. A quick S-turn bleeds the energy super easily, and even if not their missiles will reach you a good 5-10 seconds faster than yours will reach them. As long as things are balanced and you're not trying to fight AMRAAMs or R-27ERs with them, you really don't need/want loft to do well.

"Fighter pilots have ice in their veins. They don't have emotions. They think, anticipate. They know that fear and other concerns cloud your mind from what's going on and what you should be involved in." -Buzz Aldrin

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One solution would be to make AIM-7MH loft by default but not the AIM-7M. Or make it a keybinding, but I don't think ED has a lot of time over to put into FC3.

 

Better yet. If a general data cartridge would be implemented for all FC3 aircrafts (with nav waypoints entry, default RWR volume and such) a loft vs non-loft AIM-7 setting would be nice.

 

:)

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As long as things are balanced and you're not trying to fight AMRAAMs or R-27ERs with them, you really don't need/want loft to do well.

Lofted AIM-7's will retain their energy better at range. Even if you're fighting AIM-7 vs AIM-7 you absolutely want loft beyond 10 miles. The non lofted AIM-7 might cover the distance first, but it will do so with no energy left to actually get a kill. The 5 miles loft cutoff seems pretty reasonable to me, but might not be ideal in all situations.

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

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What's the realistic behaviour? Does the 7MH loft all the time or is it selectable by the pilot?

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From what I've heard (not necessarily reliable sources), IRL there's some kind of option on the MFD to enable/disable similar to the hornet's. Not sure if there's a way to do it through the hotas like the cage/uncage on the hornet, but logically since it's configurable in the hornet, it should be on the eagle too.


Edited by Nightwolf
repeated words

"Fighter pilots have ice in their veins. They don't have emotions. They think, anticipate. They know that fear and other concerns cloud your mind from what's going on and what you should be involved in." -Buzz Aldrin

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There's an option to enable/disable AND it requires the aircraft to have a 20deg + attitude to launch.

 

Ideally this is what we should have in-game in that case.

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Personal wish list: DCS: Su-27SM & DCS: Avro Vulcan.

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I have low hopes of them doing anything about it, but maybe

"Fighter pilots have ice in their veins. They don't have emotions. They think, anticipate. They know that fear and other concerns cloud your mind from what's going on and what you should be involved in." -Buzz Aldrin

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TBH i have found loft to be helpful, and i havent found TOFs to be that much longer; actually, outside on 8-9mi, TOF is shorter lofted. And at all ranges, the missile arrives with more energy. Either way tho, an option to disable it would be nice.

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We did some testing and from 5-7nm the TOF is about 3 seconds longer with the loft on than with it off, which can actually be quite significant.

"Fighter pilots have ice in their veins. They don't have emotions. They think, anticipate. They know that fear and other concerns cloud your mind from what's going on and what you should be involved in." -Buzz Aldrin

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At this rate, any shot within > 5 miles and < 15 miles are usually useless and can actually put you in danger if you decide to chase the shot (aka trying to maintain lock for it to dive down).

 

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I mean, i don't think i can have a better angle to shoot the AIM-7 like the second one, but it still miss...

Working on updates...

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At this rate, any shot within > 5 miles and < 15 miles are usually useless and can actually put you in danger if you decide to chase the shot (aka trying to maintain lock for it to dive down).

 

https://gfycat.com/sadrarecomet

 

I mean, i don't think i can have a better angle to shoot the AIM-7 like the second one, but it still miss...

You're fighting against the R-77. You should lose in that case.

 

 

Also notice that despite the AIM-7 being an inferior missile, it retained its speed better than the R-77 did. I don't think the loft hurt you here, though you could see if 7F's give you a better result.

 

 

I've flown 7M vs 7F in player vs AI and AI vs AI tests and the loft is usually the winner. The F closes faster but also loses its energy faster, letting the 7M fighter either win outright or force the 7F fighter to go defensive and run.

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

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I would certainly disagree. Lofting is a technique that yield you more range, for the sake of losing accuracy. The loft hurts the 7 miles shot (2nd one) a lot, it increase the TTG overall and larger region for evading.

 

The first one, even though hard to get a kill, but still possible. The F-Pole maneuver is used for that exact reason.

Working on updates...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bump, still not resolved or acknowledged by ED

"Fighter pilots have ice in their veins. They don't have emotions. They think, anticipate. They know that fear and other concerns cloud your mind from what's going on and what you should be involved in." -Buzz Aldrin

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Bump, still not resolved or acknowledged by ED
I believe they read it but its high possibility down low on the list. They're busy with Hornet and Viper. Meanwhile just build your own tactics to overcome this problem (if you wanna say so) or completly avoid using the missile as I do.

 

Cheers

Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power. - Lao Tze

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Well we're on to more than three months since the report, I still haven't seen ED anywhere acknowledge that this is a requested feature or anything. Can we get some confirmation whether GGTharos's new logic is being worked on, or if we're ever going to see an enable/disable loft option in the eagle? Regardless of whether or not you think it's better what we have right now is unrealistic and many people don't like it, often having to use AIM-7Fs on servers where there are no AIM-120s so that they don't have lofting missiles... A simple keybind with MFD indication would be all that's needed for a minimum effort fix, not asking for any new HUD symbology or completely new loft logic, just a toggle button.

"Fighter pilots have ice in their veins. They don't have emotions. They think, anticipate. They know that fear and other concerns cloud your mind from what's going on and what you should be involved in." -Buzz Aldrin

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