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[OPINION, NO EVIDENCE] Wake Turbulence Too Strong?


Sordsman

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Opinion and no evidence? Only thing that is evident here is that ED obviously haven't flown their own module. Wake turbulence is absolutely ridiculous in the DCS F-16. The USAF Thunderbirds would never in a million years even consider flying the F-16 if this behavior is even remotely accurate.

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To me it's alwasy funny when it seems that customers have to provide evidence, when in fact it is who sells a product that should provide evidence of its quality/realism/authenticity.

 

The community raised a concern, it would be good to say "according to our SME, the wake turbulence is realistic".

 

As it is, it looks like ED has no evidence either, yet is asking the community for evidence.

There are RL pilot accounts here, plus common logic that points to the fact it is over modelled (e.g. thunderbirds formations). It's fair to say the concern is legit and should be looked at, but I think this will take the route of the A-10C flight model discussion that lasted 10 years or so...all along having ED in full denial, and finally resulting in a change when justified by a new influx of cash.

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There is a Wake Turbulence button. If you feel it's so wrong to be unrealistic? Turn it off.

 

Having no wake turbulence is equally unrealistic as having too much of it.

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I can deal wih the turbulence. For those who can't can turn it off. Neither are realistic and need a fix. However, the choice is still available.

Oh, get off your high horse. I can deal with the wake turbulance too, but that doesn't mean I should have to. I can also deal with the bugs I reported +10 months ago and counting, that doesn't mean that ED shouldn't fix them. :detective:

-Col. Russ Everts opinion on surface-to-air missiles: "It makes you feel a little better if it's coming for one of your buddies. However, if it's coming for you, it doesn't make you feel too good, but it does rearrange your priorities."

 

DCS Wishlist:

MC-130E Combat Talon   |   F/A-18F Lot 26   |   HH-60G Pave Hawk   |   E-2 Hawkeye/C-2 Greyhound   |   EA-6A/B Prowler   |   J-35F2/J Draken   |   RA-5C Vigilante

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Opinion and no evidence? Only thing that is evident here is that ED obviously haven't flown their own module. Wake turbulence is absolutely ridiculous in the DCS F-16. The USAF Thunderbirds would never in a million years even consider flying the F-16 if this behavior is even remotely accurate.

 

Ah, we found the spokesperson for the Thunderbirds.;)

 

When you're that close to another plane as during formation flying, the wake "spirals" aren't as large as they'll get farther away from the plane. So formation flying is always done in an offset to the other plane as to avoid the wake.

 

"When flying formation you are separated from other aircraft in three dimensions." and "[...] the procedures they use and position that each aircraft is compared to the next airplane keeps them out of that turbulent air."

 

Guess all formation teams deal with that. But, not always perfectly as it appears: "Two of the jets in the Blue Angel Delta formation encountered unexpected wake turbulence," Hontz said, "causing a very brief and minor contact between the aircraft."

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Oh, get off your high horse. I can deal with the wake turbulance too, but that doesn't mean I should have to. I can also deal with the bugs I reported +10 months ago and counting, that doesn't mean that ED shouldn't fix them. :detective:

 

If I didn't say that someone would accuse me of turning off turbulence and playing arcade.

 

No high horse involved. Get off your attitude.

Buzz

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Wouldnt say its too strong, maybe should get stronger in some occasions.

I wouldnt reference Guys like the Thunderbirds or that Alpha Jet Demo Team Dealing with Waketurbulences. Just because some highly trained Pilot hasnt musch of a Problem dealing with the Turbulences doesnt mean they arent there or they are weaker. That just means he or she knows what hes doing, you cant see the Control Input involved to keep that flight so smooth.

 

I can tell from my experienc that the Tower ordered me to wait for up to 3 Minutes before i was allowed to take off because an Airliner took off before me sitting in my small GA Plane otherwise i would have crashed simply without much of a chance. I also experienced the turbulences when i was towed by a Sportsplane sitting in a Glider, if you get into the turbulences you really know it and you have to act. you couldnt see that i had some issues there, but i had to do massive control inputs to keep the flight smooth and safe..

I also read some report from German Authorities where a Plane simply crashed at a local Airshow just because there was a AN-2 a few minutes before. So if the Plane causing them is bigger and you are sitting in a smaller plane the turbulences can turn you upside down in a heart beat. Also caused by a smaller plane you have to account for them especially when you are close.

 

So i wouldnt call them too strong, they have potential to disturb us more than they do now.

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Hi!

Just because some highly trained Pilot hasnt musch of a Problem dealing with the Turbulences doesnt mean they arent there or they are weaker. That just means he or she knows what hes doing, you cant see the Control Input involved to keep that flight so smooth

 

There is nothing you can do to "smooth" wake turbulence in formation flight.

It is perfectly true that what I am saying it only opinion since I've never flew F-16.

 

The only thing I can swear, is that on AlphaJet, Mirage2000, Jaguar and MirageF1 it is far far from being so strong. Passing behind a C5 or an An225, probably (?) but not through the wake of the same category aircraft.

 

I also fly DR400, please do not compare light a/c with small/medium fighter jet, wing loading is not the same. Same when going to the category above. I do not experience the same on

than what I used to know on AJet.

 

Regards.

 

 

EDIT:

 

I can tell from my experienc that the Tower ordered me to wait for up to 3 Minutes before i was allowed to take off because an Airliner took off before me sitting in my small GA Plane otherwise i would have crashed simply without much of a chance. I also experienced the turbulences when i was towed by a Sportsplane sitting in a Glider, if you get into the turbulences you really know it and you have to act. you couldnt see that i had some issues there, but i had to do massive control inputs to keep the flight smooth and safe..

I also read some report from German Authorities where a Plane simply crashed at a local Airshow just because there was a AN-2 a few minutes before. So if the Plane causing them is bigger and you are sitting in a smaller plane the turbulences can turn you upside down in a heart beat. Also caused by a smaller plane you have to account for them especially when you are close.

 

So i wouldnt call them too strong, they have potential to disturb us more than they do now.

 

I am not saying that your experience is not relevant of course. I've already said also that I had the same than you when I was flying a

behind a C-160, about tree minutes after its takeoff, reaching 1500ft AGL I suddenly rolled 3/4 inverted with absolutely no control to counter it. It lasted about two-three seconds ... but it was freaking.
Edited by Dee-Jay
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So what you basically say is to make the wake turbulence weaker caused by the fighter jets not the turbulence as a whole? In this regard im on your Boat.

 

I never flew a Jet in RL so i can only do some guesses here. But if you think a little bit about it, it makes sense to have lower turbulences at least when you are close enough.

One thought is to not make it not exactly weaker but increase them if a bit further behind. From what ive learned in school those wakes are starting small and then increase in size. So at the point they grew to a certain size they should affect you and in reverse if they are too small you will not recognize them even if they are there technically.

But no clue how the Wing load affects this.

So from my understanding the Wing load (Bombs, Fueltanks, Missiles or whatever you have) would create its own turbulences which are way smaller obviously but do the affect the turbulence caused by the plane itself?

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But no clue how the Wing load affects this.

 

 

Wing loading, not wing load. It's a design criterion for airplanes. Basically, bigger wings & less weight = less wing loading and vice versa.

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One thought is to not make it not exactly weaker but increase them if a bit further behind. From what ive learned in school those wakes are starting small and then increase in size. So at the point they grew to a certain size they should affect you and in reverse if they are too small you will not recognize them even if they are there technically.

 

The strongest effect is at wing tip but on a very small area (few inches diameter) The futher away, the larger the area is, but it gets weaker weaker with distance increasing. Only an a/c of a heavier mass can "rock n roll" a lighter one. Jet behind jet, wake turbs are less noticeable than the jet blast of engine (which makes airflow turbulente but without vortex)

If both a/c are the same category, it won't be as seen in game.

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