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Rift S and flying at night not so good


wrl11

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I really like my rift S, much clearer. But I did my first night flight and was disappointed. The black sky is a grey sky, you can't see the stars. Its hard to see cockpit controls. I turned gamma down to 1.0, no improvement. I erased the spud directory like you could do with the old rift to make night black, no effect.

 

Anyone figure out how to improve it?

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Probably an issue with the LCD screen. Not as good blacks as OLED.

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[...]The black sky is a grey sky, you can't see the stars.[...]

Are you sure, that you was not flying in overcast conditions? I can't see, how the stars would not show: LCD might have worse black levels, but contrast in general should still be decent...

Maybe put gamma higher, not lower? It should not change black levels much, but maybe helps the other contrasting light sources to pop out more...

Have you tried with gamma 1.8 and 2.0 ?

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Higher gamma makes it a brighter grey sky that further washes out everything. I saw posts on the net that Elite Dangerous looked good in rift s, so maybe its something in DCS, the way they are doing the black sky vs Elite. Not sure.

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Thank you for starting this thread, as it is one of the things I am most curious about, as I ponder whether to go Rift S (from CV1).

 

All of the following is speculation, based on my using the f18 on a mission set to a moonless night, with my CV1.

 

Night in DCS is unfortunately a let down in VR, and I find it to be a very curious problem. I think that it is due to both hardware limitations and the way DCS has been programmed.

 

The thing with that well-known space exploration and trading game is that even though you are in space, it is very rare (probably never) that you experience a totally black screen - there are always stars, nebulae, the HUD, cockpit frame, etc, in view. This makes a huge difference to not seeing MURA effects. With DCS, when facing front and having the cockpit in view, the black night outside doesn't look too bad, but look to the sides or straight up so that all you see is the black night, and MURA is extremely noticeable. Yes, there is a registry change that can be made to get rid of MURA, but then you don't get pure blacks, but everything is light grey, as if using a backlight; imo this is even worse.

 

I find that I turn down the gamma and there is a point (around 1.3 iirc, Kegetys mod helps a lot here), where the sky abruptly goes to from grey to inky black. TBH, it's not too bad at this point, and adjusting cockpit flood lights helps, BUT the outside building, runway, etc lights, are way too dark, and should be much, much, brighter.

 

The worst effects are when you are on the ground or close to landing. It seems that no matter the gamma adjustment, you always see the sorrounding terrain textures, with their colours are badly distorted. In screenshots, curiously, everything just appears black.

 

To sum up, I think there are headset hardware limitations which need to be worked around by developers in a number of ways (introducing canopy reflections,etc so you're never looking at just black outside, adjustments to texture colours), which would mean (I suspect) ED having to do lots of work and change textures for night VR - this is a big ask.*

 

I suspect (and regret) that going from OLED to LCD is only going to make things worse for night missions. Anyway, as I say, all speculation, would love to hear from someone who actually knows what's what. And sorry for hijacking of the thread somewhat.

 

P.S. I have flown light aircraft at night, and it is a truly wonderful experience: in the absence of artificial lights it is a completely inky black void, where there are lights they shine beautifully brightly in contrast. It is a great shame that this cannot be better simulated in VR.

 

 

* However, if ED were to release a DCS VR Enhancement Pack , I, for one, would be happy to pay good money for it.


Edited by Hippo

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I'm very happy with the O+ and the visuals at night. For example, there is a training mission for the F18 AIM7 Sparrows in PG map. The mission starts at evening and when the sun is totally hidden you can't see nearly anything.. maybe some coastline.. lights of cities.. etc. In fact, sometimes I end going to khasab AB to land and I can't see the mountains around the city if there isn't any light close to them.

 

After land and in the Tarmac I can nearly see the texture of the closest ridge.. but everything seems very natural.

 

Before the O+ I used the CV1 and the visuals at night were a lot worse.. but I think the CV1 also had OLED displays so I don't know how the new LCD panels look.

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This is a really curious discussion, as my experience with night flying and Rift S (vs CV1) has seen a vast and significant improvement! To the point where I quite enjoy night flights now, as opposed to not at all.

 

From my perspective (and subjective opinion) there has been one negative trade off to give several really positive ones:

 

Negative:

- Black levels. No more ink black. But the levels you do get are quite useable.

 

Positive:

- Zero mura or grainy effect that follows your gaze.

- vastly reduced god rays, so no massive unrealistic light spill from sources.

- significantly reduced colour banding throughout. Especially noticeable during dusk/dawn.This I didn’t expect, but am really happy about as before the banding was ridiculous!

 

Before the Rift S I really wanted to enjoy and utilise flying at night. Because of the amalgamated issues I found the experience quite poor. Now, although not perfect, I find the experience quite useable and even enjoyable. I plan to explore it a lot more...I did my 1st IFR Lansing in the AV-8 using just the AWLS the other day and it was a blast!

 

Brick.


Edited by Fubarbrickdust

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I'm very happy with the O+ and the visuals at night. For example, there is a training mission for the F18 AIM7 Sparrows in PG map. The mission starts at evening and when the sun is totally hidden you can't see nearly anything.. maybe some coastline.. lights of cities.. etc. In fact, sometimes I end going to khasab AB to land and I can't see the mountains around the city if there isn't any light close to them.

 

After land and in the Tarmac I can nearly see the texture of the closest ridge.. but everything seems very natural.

 

Before the O+ I used the CV1 and the visuals at night were a lot worse.. but I think the CV1 also had OLED displays so I don't know how the new LCD panels look.

 

Interesting, so there is no colour banding or anything like that? And no mura? I have a CV1.

Win 10 64//4.5g i7 Kaby Lake//gtx Titan x pascal//16gb 3200ram//Asus Maximux Hero IX//Oculus Rift//

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Probably an issue with the LCD screen. Not as good blacks as OLED.

 

CV1 OLED was equally bad if not worse. They disabled true blacks on it.

 

On the other side, I flew a couple of night missions in S and it was "serviceable", not great but ok. No mura, banding and virtually no god rays.


Edited by mdee
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Interesting, so there is no colour banding or anything like that? And no mura? I have a CV1.

 

Heya nrosko,

 

I know the question was not pointed directly at me, but I can answer as I've come directly from a CV1 to Rift S:

 

Mura? - Completely gone. Non-existent now.

Colour banding? - Practically eliminated in comparison to CV!. I really had to go looking for it, and even then it was very mild at best.

Godrays? - Massively reduced. Which has a very positive impact on night flying in my opinion.

 

Of course these observations are exactly that, my subjective opinions moving from my CV1 to Rift S, but they are heavily based on some clear and undeniable objective facts.

 

Hope it helps,

Brick.

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Heya nrosko,

 

I know the question was not pointed directly at me, but I can answer as I've come directly from a CV1 to Rift S:

 

Mura? - Completely gone. Non-existent now.

Colour banding? - Practically eliminated in comparison to CV!. I really had to go looking for it, and even then it was very mild at best.

Godrays? - Massively reduced. Which has a very positive impact on night flying in my opinion.

 

Of course these observations are exactly that, my subjective opinions moving from my CV1 to Rift S, but they are heavily based on some clear and undeniable objective facts.

 

Hope it helps,

Brick.

 

OK that's good to hear, these improvements are as important as resolution to me.

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Interesting, so there is no colour banding or anything like that? And no mura? I have a CV1.

 

I though the color banding issue was due to DCS.. but if is happening now I didn't notice it.. Definitively no mura.. the screens look great with darkness.

 

OmuQGCz.jpg

 

This is a through lens photo, will try to do one at night.


Edited by S-GERAT
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"colour banding".

 

This stood out to me as well. By colour banding I tend to think of the (absolutely terrible) horizon banding that was present in 1.5. But this has never been an issue for me in recent versions. Or maybe you were referring to something else?

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It is not pitch black but there is not the banding issue anymore.

I prefer this way honestly

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If any Rift-S owners are feeling particularly generous with their time, perhaps they could fly the attached mission and give their impressions?

(NB: uses the F-18. You must call the tower, or the runway lights won't come on.)

 

I use gamma 1.3 on CV1 + Kegetys mod.

 

How do the building lights from the coastal towns look? When close to touchdown, what do the fields to the left and right look like? Can you see the aircraft wings from inside the cockpit? On the runway, can you see ground textures to the left and right?

 

imo, everything away from ground lighting should be pure black, and no texturing whatsoever should show. Same for the sky.

Straight-in Landing (Night).miz

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I 'm looking forward to try the index as currently night time is off limits.

 

Based to this review: black is better in S than in either CV1 or Vive.

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"colour banding".

 

This stood out to me as well. By colour banding I tend to think of the (absolutely terrible) horizon banding that was present in 1.5. But this has never been an issue for me in recent versions. Or maybe you were referring to something else?

 

No this is still absolutely a problem for me, it is worst at dawn & dusk but it is there full nights as well with my rift.

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I though the color banding issue was due to DCS.. but if is happening now I didn't notice it.. Definitively no mura.. the screens look great with darkness.

 

 

This is a through lens photo, will try to do one at night.

 

That looks very good.

 

Anyone know what nights are like with the reverb?

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If any Rift-S owners are feeling particularly generous with their time, perhaps they could fly the attached mission and give their impressions?

(NB: uses the F-18. You must call the tower, or the runway lights won't come on.)

 

I use gamma 1.3 on CV1 + Kegetys mod.

 

How do the building lights from the coastal towns look? When close to touchdown, what do the fields to the left and right look like? Can you see the aircraft wings from inside the cockpit? On the runway, can you see ground textures to the left and right?

 

imo, everything away from ground lighting should be pure black, and no texturing whatsoever should show. Same for the sky.

 

I just gave this a quick test to see how things looked. Please note, I am not a competent F18 jockey at all. I am still learning the systems and have never tried to land the Hornet in those types of conditions.

 

I believe my gamma is set to 1.6 or 1.7. Probably a bit high for this test. Sorry about that.

 

Starting the mission I can make out some dim lights of a few pockets of buildings and the sky, while definitely not black, is very dark. Reminds me of minor backlight bleed you get on some monitors. You can tell the monitor is on, because there is a slight glow, but its more of a dark gray soupy type color than a obsidian black.

 

I can not see my wings out the cockpit. After contacting ATC and the landing lights pop up I can make them out as small pin points of lights. Looking down I can see the lights coming from inside buildings and street lights and make out their shapes but not many details. Everything looks a bit hazy as opposed to jet black. I would rate the color of the sky perhaps like you might get with a waxing crescent moon.

 

I never made it ON the runway itself but flying it over I can see where the surface of the runway IS due to the position of the landing lights, but again, could not discern any detail because of the darkness all around.

 

Sorry, that's probably all very vague to you but I am just not an accomplished enough F18 pilot to really test out this mission. What I am though is someone that's been playing DCS and its various predecessors for over 14 years and I would say that while far from perfect, the modeling of dark skies in the Rift-S seems to work sufficiently well. Very few flight sims have ever gotten night flying really nailed, and DCS is no different in this regards.

 

I also play Elite Dangerous a lot in VR, and I have no issues with the "blackness" of space as rendered on these LCD panels.

 

Hope that helps some...

 

Madmatt


Edited by Madmatt_BFC

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