=BURNING SKIES= WWII Server

Just asking.. Is there a possibility to zoom view in VR? 'Cause normally to identify target at distance I use zoom.

VR does have a zoom, but it’s limited to a x2 zoom, unlike a monitor user, with x32, or whatever it equates to. The difference is massive and puts VR users at a significant disadvantage for aircraft ID.

I see the 10 min delay has been extended to 20 mins. Good call.

 

I'm going to re-open a request that I've previously made.

Clearly, the labels have been made bigger. That's great for spotting, but still useless for identification of friend of foe, certainly so for VR users.

 

I've just been out and had to be within what I'm guessing was 200m to be able to identify that the aircraft I'd been chasing for the last 10 minutes was a friendly...

 

Any chance of the label being updated to RED and BLUE please to depict sides?

Labels are the smallest possible that are still visible on a regular monitor. I don't have official confirmation, but I believe VR mode has some kind of in-built font enlargement feature that make the symbols that are barely visible on a desktop monitor pretty big in VR. I think that it should be addressed to devs as for labels I believe that through many trials currently we've reached a pretty optimal compromise for most users.

Also, it has already been mentioned by other users, you can map a button on your flight stick to enable/disable labels and turn them off for identification.

As for colored lables, I'm sorry to say that, but they are not on the to do list.

To re-iterate. My point is NOT about spotting. Spotting another aircraft is fine in VR with the current labels.

What is NOT possible to reliably achieve until you’re in shooting range is identify an aircraft in VR.

Hence why I spent 10 mins chasing what turned out to be a friendly for 10 mins last night.

I’ve read a number of biographies recently, which included comments about being able to identify a aircraft a mile out. Right now, this server puts VR pilots at a massive disadvantage.

To re-iterate. My point is NOT about spotting. Spotting another aircraft is fine in VR with the current labels.

What is NOT possible to reliably achieve until you’re in shooting range is identify an aircraft in VR.

Hence why I spent 10 mins chasing what turned out to be a friendly for 10 mins last night.

 

I’ve read a number of biographies recently, which included comments about being able to identify a aircraft a mile out. Right now, this server puts VR pilots at a massive disadvantage.

Your point is well understood. But I assume that having red/blue labels or only blue labels like in WarThunder is simply not possible on this server. After all, what you describe seems to be VR or DCS+VR problem which must be fixed (not sure by whom).

Your point is well understood. But I assume that having red/blue labels or only blue labels like in WarThunder is simply not possible on this server. After all, what you describe seems to be VR or DCS+VR problem which must be fixed (not sure by whom).

I’m not sure that my point is understood, as otherwise, why has eekz responded with a comment about spotting capability, which is nothing to do with my discussion point.

Spotting is most certainly NOT the same as aircraft identification.

As for the custom labels, these are exactly that, custom, and only implemented here.

The standard labels as supplied by ED are coloured. Clearly, a deliberate decision was made to make them black for all users on this server.

Whilst polls are on a rough guideline, 1/3rd of the players who responded to the poll were in VR, ie a significant element of the player base.

Spotting is still issue in DCS and nearly impossible without labels in WW2 enviroment is most people agree, was a lot easyer with my old non HD Monitor.

In the VR spotting is easyer because of the lower Pixel Density, identify a Aircrafts is easyer with the Monitor higher Pixels in the LOD's...

Currently the Labels are beliveable and good compromise..

P

Spotting is still issue in DCS and nearly impossible without labels in WW2 enviroment is most people agree, was a lot easyer with my old non HD Monitor.

In the VR spotting is easyer because of the lower Pixel Density, identify a Aircrafts is easyer with the Monitor higher Pixels in the LOD's...

Currently the Labels are beliveable and good compromise..

Here we go, case in point.

I mention identification and get a response about spotting.

How many times do I need to state that I have ZERO issues with spotting, but plenty with identification.

Please don’t confuse the two metrics.

P

 

Here we go, case in point.

I mention identification and get a response about spotting.

 

How many times do I need to state that I have ZERO issues with spotting, but plenty with identification.

Please don’t confuse the two metrics.

I get what your saying, yes plane spotting is easy, plane identification is very difficult in VR, however that has nothing to do with the server settings and everything to do with VR limitations within DCS. What Eekz said earlier is about the only way to deal with it. You’ll have to map a button to turn off the labels when aircraft get close to help with the identification. Granted, it will only makes the situation slightly better. VR rendering is very different and unfortunately planes don’t really became planes until their within a few hundred yards. It’s gets easier with experience but you’ll always feel like your at a disadvantage with zoom and identification because you are.

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P

 

Here we go, case in point.

I mention identification and get a response about spotting.

 

How many times do I need to state that I have ZERO issues with spotting, but plenty with identification.

Please don’t confuse the two metrics.

I probably confuse little bit, but I wrote also the Part about Identify...

Yes higher the Pixel Density and more zoom you get it get more easier to identify Aircrafts...

and in the VR sometime impossible to know, it the Russian Skin P-51 or 109, we have all trouble with it...

I do not use zoom at all, it's not even mapped to my hotas. Spawn in, press enter once and thats about it. TrackIR here, so no VR experience.

The zooming option is killing a lot realism in that sim, I wish it could or would be turned off for everybody like the 3rd person view and other arcade stuff. Zooming in a WWII plane didn't happen in real life except the very rare use of rifle scopes at ultra long distances to find enemy formations.

Sadly the zoom in and out option is like scanning the battlefield like in an a10. The if, who and how many should play a bigger part in DCS WWII.

What's wrong with chasing an aircraft that turns out to be friendly ? Happens, happened an will happen again. Rather have a 100% rate at picking the next target ? Thanks no ... Red n blue labels to make ultra clear who is who ? Glad the server host declined that already. And by the way, folks who ask for bigger labels, red n blue, whatever ... there will be no advantage for anybody except the already skilled pilots.

I don't think they will have much trouble shooting big blue or red targets that pop up across the map.

I do not use zoom at all, it's not even mapped to my hotas. Spawn in, press enter once and thats about it. TrackIR here, so no VR experience.

 

The zooming option is killing a lot realism in that sim, I wish it could or would be turned off for everybody like the 3rd person view and other arcade stuff. Zooming in a WWII plane didn't happen in real life except the very rare use of rifle scopes at ultra long distances to find enemy formations.

Sadly the zoom in and out option is like scanning the battlefield like in an a10. The if, who and how many should play a bigger part in DCS WWII.

 

What's wrong with chasing an aircraft that turns out to be friendly ? Happens, happened an will happen again. Rather have a 100% rate at picking the next target ? Thanks no ... Red n blue labels to make ultra clear who is who ? Glad the server host declined that already. And by the way, folks who ask for bigger labels, red n blue, whatever ... there will be no advantage for anybody except the already skilled pilots.

I don't think they will have much trouble shooting big blue or red targets that pop up across the map.

Agreed that the zoom is not realistic, however, as already mentioned, I’ve read biographies of ww2 pilots stating that they could ID an enemy at a mile away, so being fair our ID capability without zoom is not as good as reality.

Personally, I’d have no issues chasing an aircraft to ID it, but only if that’s true for all of the pilots involved. Quite clearly, a monitor user with their telescopic zoom option has a massive advantage over a VR user regarding ID.

The implications being that they won’t be wasting time chasing an aircraft and committing to an closure just to ID the enemy.

What I’d like is a rough parity in identification distances, and right now, we’re not close.

What I don’t understand is the negativity regarding colouring the current label blob. After all, how is changing it’s colour any different to the existing massive blurry black blob in the sky. Neither is truly realistic.

I do not use zoom at all, it's not even mapped to my hotas. Spawn in, press enter once and thats about it. TrackIR here, so no VR experience.

 

The zooming option is killing a lot realism in that sim, I wish it could or would be turned off for everybody like the 3rd person view and other arcade stuff. Zooming in a WWII plane didn't happen in real life except the very rare use of rifle scopes at ultra long distances to find enemy formations.

Sadly the zoom in and out option is like scanning the battlefield like in an a10. The if, who and how many should play a bigger part in DCS WWII.

zooming has nothing to do with using artificial binoculars. Read about field of view in video games and how to setup a correct fov for your airplane. VR users don't have that problem since they are already in the right place with their virutal ingame head while almost every user with a monitor has to compensate between seeing where he needs to fly, watching some gauges and dials and spotting something which would actually be bigger. If you wouldn't allow zooming dcs would have a recommendations of about a 55" screen or bigger, because you wouldn't see shit on a 27" screen or smaller. If you don't understand what i mean, take a picture frame with the size of your actual monitor and get into your car hold it at the same distance like your monitor and try to understand why there is a need of manipulating the field of view on the fly.

My car is unfortunately pretty small but I get your point :-) Probably that FOV problem is much more difficult than I thought. Lots to learn but one thing remains: by zooming in, one can make a small target appear much larger right ? Just not happening in a real cockpit, it's a cheat.

With just a screen in front of us we will never get an ultra realistc 3D immersion like the VR users have. Spotting in this game might be terrible but I tested almost every screen size and resolution. 1080p up to 4k, 27" gaming monitors up to a 55" Oled TV, labels off and on in all kinds of variations ... It is harder the higher the resolution is and bigger is better yes but the difference is in no way THE game changer.

Look at a target you are chasing, check your six, look at the target again ... gone ! Happens to us all the time. But more often than not, we can see it again after loosing track. Sometimes we just go WTF and blame the entire universe for it. Enemy aircraft is still there, hard to see but still there, we overlook a lot. Dark blue sky, forrest, those nasty waves, flickering textures, stress, fatigue, etc ... We really just overlook a lot in this game !!!

Can't imagine how much targets people miss because of zooming in and out all the time.

If we are honest we can see a lot and miss a lot which brings joy and frustration.

Spotting is bad as of now but constant zooming would make my head explode.

Labels make a difference ! I don't like labels but BS has done a good job so far. Way better than a month or two ago.

http://www.projectimmersion.com/fov/ this is for simracing but it still works also with flightsims. If you use dcs as it is the fov between the most modules is around 80-90° if you play on a 24" screen, where you sit 51cm away from it you would get a fov of 33°. You can zoom till 20° on default so which would mean you would be nearly zoomed in. If you stay 51 cm away from your screen you would need a screen with 75" that it would look real with a fov of 85° which is nearly the default value for all other planes. So you are not cheating because you are zooming in, you are always zoomed out. But if you wouldn't be zoomed out and you would have to play on a 24" screen you would only get a fov of 33° which is pretty useless if you have to fly and look at gauges. Its a compromise.

For the spotting i also think that there needs to be an improvement that everybody with every resolution is able to spot the same things on the same detail level. I am using a 4k tv since a couple of months and its fabulous because i can switch off antialiasing completely and it looks still awesome, but spotting something became quite hard since iam not able anymore to see a single pixel moving against the sky. was a different story on my 1080 24". With the labels there is a chance to see something.

And at your target chasing story thats how its gonna be in real life too i think. I mean you are flying with speeds around 350 - 500 kmh. If the guy in front of you moves quickly he's gone because of the speed. It's kinda like driving a formula one car down the start/finish straight and watching for the marker which says 50m and do a hard braking maneuver to get the turn done. It happens so fast and those guys not reaching 400kmh even. And if you would have a 75" screen where you don't have to zoom in to see the guy in front of you clearly it would be much easier because you have a 1:1 ratio like in real life.

May I ask what size your current TV screen is ? The 55" 4k I used was too big to set it up properly in front of my desk. But I may go that route and change my whole desk / room layout. 4k is stunning, almost no need for AA if the distance to your eyes is set up right. Wish there were TVs with Gsync.

And by the way, the chasing example was actually meant to describe loosing a target by just looking away from it for a second. Nothing to do with how fast or what direction an enemy aircraft goes.

Even if the target has never left its initial position, we often just don't pick it up again or at least don't see it right away. We start to pan for it, check six again, move our heads arround to get rid of the canopy frames, we start to bank and turn, you name it ... That tiny DCS bandit has never left, is flying the same speed, the same heading right where we picked him up for the first time. We just overlook those little spots, assume too much which makes things even worse.

And we really need no coloured labels. I don't get it. Identifying is hard and tricky, even harder for VR users ok. But we have all kinds of different liveries, red tails, yellow noses etc

The spitfire prop is quite a label I'd say, her wings too. P 51 liveries flicker and so on ...

It's pure fun to check out who is who. Where is he heading, where did he came from, what altitude, what speed, how many are there, are they climbing a lot or stick to turning ... we already get a pretty good picture what's going on. And there is voice chat, wingmen, training and experience. Think we have enough tools to fight the right guy.

43" but its a compromise setup right now. I moved a couple of months ago to a new flat and i have to built a lot of stuff myself and didn't have much spare time in those 3 months to do anything. So our TV became also my main screen. But i am sitting like 1m away from it when i fly and i don't use a real fov with this setup. My last setup was built for simracing with a 24" triple screen setup and a real fov. With the jetseat, a ffb wheel and trackir it's unbelieveable immersive.

Yeah for me it's the same. Visual identification is something i really enjoy. Also with the jet fighters when they don't have a proper radar with iff.

thx mate, see you in the air :-)

We've had a couple teamkillers tonight, they were killing folks in RED team:

http://stats.burning-skies.com/en/pilots/3725/details.html

http://stats.burning-skies.com/en/pilots/3726/details.html

People were complaining over the chat so I thought I'd bring this matter to your attention Eekz.

Also, I was wondering if we could expect any new mission for Caucasus. Like I understand reasons for not going for Normandy, but there is no excuse to stick to this primitive 2+ year old mission that only focuses on furballs and air quake. We can have good missions with Caucasus as well, as SoW demonstrated with their mission trying to mimick 1943 Italy - a Monte Cassino like.

Yes agreed, this same air quick mission over and over is mind numbing boring. Normandy would be more appropriate, or at least change the current caucus mission.

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Yes agreed, this same air quick mission over and over is mind numbing boring. Normandy would be more appropriate, or at least change the current caucus mission.

 

 

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Very soon. I planned to roll out a new mission on this weekend by turned to be away from home so I couldn't. Expect a new mission tonight or tomorrow night! This time for sure :thumbup:

With CW Spitfire hopefully ;)

Hi,

i really need some help with the Labels on the server.

I just dont see them.

Single Player etc the Point Label works just fine, they are enabled in the gameplay options.

When on server, even SHift F2 or Shift F10 does nothing, there are just no lables for me.

Do i need to install any additional script?

Any advice or help would be great.

Thanks in advance.

Hi,

i really need some help with the Labels on the server.

I just dont see them.

Single Player etc the Point Label works just fine, they are enabled in the gameplay options.

When on server, even SHift F2 or Shift F10 does nothing, there are just no lables for me.

Do i need to install any additional script?

Any advice or help would be great.

Thanks in advance.

Labels on the server are just black dots, and only visible on a certain distance.

You won't notice if labels are off or on if no other plane is close to you.

Before i takeoff i press once Shift+F10, after i forgett also sometimes to activate the labels or unsure i activate them..

I fly away from the Airfield, and keep the Planes on the Ground in Sight, dont zoom in, when i nearly unable to spot them on the Ground i test the labels by pressing shift F10, that is the best Disctance to show they will work or not..

The Labels most circumstances not obvious they are Working or not when you are in close Proximity to a another Plane, they Provide only little help at Disctances.

When the Lables are activated in your Options you dont need to press anything when you join the Server, the labels are custom Made have nothing toghter with the Singel Player labels...

Also its deepending hard on your Monitor Resolution, higher Resolution and AA Sampling it will be more difficult to spot something..

Hope this will help a little bit...