Magic MAV search patterns

He probably meant that it will take more time to get a lock as Magic seeker will follow a pattern. You can see in the video that it can take some time depending on bandit relative position and pattern selected. And as we won't get the seeker reticle while search pattern is performed, we can be sure some will complain that it takes for ever to get a lock...

He probably meant that it will take more time to get a lock as Magic seeker will follow a pattern. You can see in the video that it can take some time depending on bandit relative position and pattern selected. And as we won't get the seeker reticle while search pattern is performed, we can be sure some will complain that it takes for ever to get a lock...

Indeed, since now the Magic seeker is not boresighted but following a search pattern it can take a few seconds to get a lock.

The fastest pattern is Narrow Vertical, the one with the brackets.

Indeed, since now the Magic seeker is not boresighted but following a search pattern it can take a few seconds to get a lock.

 

The fastest pattern is Narrow Vertical, the one with the brackets.

Is there a specific VTH symbology to know which mode is active (except vertical narrow with the brackets), or we should now from what buttons are pressed ?

Magic MAV search zones:

So, I just had a few brief tests, just updated.

First thing that I noticed: if I switch to Vertical Narrow Search, the four brackets appear at the corners of the area. But then, if I deselect MAV from PCA or put back CNM to Cancel, the brackets stay in the HUD. Is this correct? Does this mean that the IR Search is still operational?

EDIT: yes, it looks like that once you enter MAV search by pressing MAG or using CNM Magic, the seeker is always on. The only way I could find to deactivate it, and make all the HUD symbols (the brackets and the horizontal/vertical arrow) is to DESELECT MAV (going back to MAG) and then switch to CNM GUN and then CNM Neutral. Is this correct?

MAV vertical narrow search icon is not correct when selected from PCA. Shows a horizontal icon.

When selection from Magic select, icon is correct. Will report it in bug section

I thought that was intented as to mee the symbology makes sense. vertical narrow search (common mode) is indicated by the brackets only and the horizontal arrow on the left side is there indicating the primary Mav mode (the mode you will swith to if you press mag unlock). Verical arrow is preserved for the Vertical wide scan , otherwise it could lead to confusion.

Let's see what Zeus have to say.

I thought that was intented as to mee the symbology makes sense. vertical narrow search (common mode) is indicated by the brackets only and the horizontal arrow on the left side is there for indicating the primary Mav mode (the mode you will swith to if you press mag unlock). Verical arrow is preserved for the Vertical wide scan , otherwise it could lead to confusion.

Let's see what Zeus have to say.

You're right !

From the updated manual:

VERTICAL / HORIZONTAL SEARCH INDICATOR. Denotes current general search mode

of the MAGIC II missiles - either vertical or horizontal

i missed that detail in my first reading.

Not a bug then. Will remove it from the bug section :thumbup:

It seems that if no prior other weapons (e.g. 530) are selected, going to CNM Magic and back to CNM Neutral clears the AA HUD symbols except the vertial arrow, and no PCA store is selected as expected, but the IR scan is still active and firing the Magic releases the missile. Again, don't know if it's intended or not, but it seems weird.

Instead, once that 530 are selected at least once, going back to CNM Neutral after CNM Magic correctly selects 530 and the IR scan is not active anymore.

i think in the manual should be written more clearly, that MAV search selected through PCA has priority over MAV search selected through Mag CNM, despite which mode is selected first.

The very purpose of MAV is to use it as IRST without selecting it, on top of other weapons/ modes. :smilewink:

But you shouldn't be able to shoot Magic after CNM Neutral command...

So, I just had a few brief tests, just updated.

 

First thing that I noticed: if I switch to Vertical Narrow Search, the four brackets appear at the corners of the area. But then, if I deselect MAV from PCA or put back CNM to Cancel, the brackets stay in the HUD. Is this correct? Does this mean that the IR Search is still operational?

 

EDIT: yes, it looks like that once you enter MAV search by pressing MAG or using CNM Magic, the seeker is always on. The only way I could find to deactivate it, and make all the HUD symbols (the brackets and the horizontal/vertical arrow) is to DESELECT MAV (going back to MAG) and then switch to CNM GUN and then CNM Neutral. Is this correct?

Please read the manual, it has been updated to include Magic MAV.

Basically MAV is enabled for as long as the Magic missiles are active.

They become active in two ways:

1. By selecting MAGIC via HOTAS

2. By clicking on the MAG button in the PCA, which will display MAV to indicate that the missiles are active.

Using PCA MAG/MAV, also allows the pilot to use the Magic seeker with other weapons: Guns, S530D, Bombs, etc.

But remember, that although the missile can be locked on a target, it will not fire until you select MAGIC via HOTAS.

Please read the manual, it has been updated to include Magic MAV.

 

Basically MAV is enabled for as long as the Magic missiles are active.

They become active in two ways:

1. By selecting MAGIC via HOTAS

2. By clicking on the MAG button in the PCA, which will display MAV to indicate that the missiles are active.

 

Using PCA MAG/MAV, also allows the pilot to use the Magic seeker with other weapons: Guns, S530D, Bombs, etc.

 

But remember, that although the missile can be locked on a target, it will not fire until you select MAGIC via HOTAS.

Please read my message above:

It seems that if no prior other weapons (e.g. 530) are selected, going to CNM Magic and back to CNM Neutral clears the AA HUD symbols, except the vertical IR scan arrow, and no PCA store is selected as expected, but the IR scan is still active and firing the Magic releases the missile. Again, don't know if it's intended or not, but it seems weird.

 

Instead, once that 530 are selected at least once, going back to CNM Neutral after CNM Magic correctly selects 530 and the IR scan is not active anymore.

Here's two tracks clearly showing this. In MAV Test 2 I break visual contact with the bandit, activate CNM Magic, go back to CNM Neutral, and then I'm still able to acquire a lock and fire a Magic.

In MAV Test 3 instead I activate CNM Magic, acquire a lock, go back to CNM Neutral and the lock is still there, the Magic is still selected on the PCA and I can fire it.

In both cases I can fire the Magic with CNM Neutral. I read the updated part in the manual, but I couldn't find anywhere that I should be able to fire a Magic with CNM Neutral.

MAV Test 2.trk

MAV Test 3.trk

Issue is with CNM Neutral that is bugged right now. Not specific to Magic.

See https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=263258

Basically, when going back to Neutral, it doesn't reset mode correctly (try from Navigation mode for example, PCA top line will not get back to standard Nav mode when CMN switch back to Neutral from CAN/MAG). I'll try to provide a track with all differents scenari in bug section.

That's probably why you can still shoot magics from CMN neutral

Please read my message above:

Magic is still selected on the PCA and I can fire it.

Magics are not selected from the PCA, only from CNM Magic.

MAG/MAV on PCA just activates them or displays they are activated, you can then use MAV search with other weapons selected on PCA or even in Nav mode with no weapons selected.

Issue is with CNM Neutral that is bugged right now. Not specific to Magic.

See https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=263258

Basically, when going back to Neutral, it doesn't reset mode correctly (try from Navigation mode for example, PCA top line will not get back to standard Nav mode when CMN switch back to Neutral from CAN/MAG). I'll try to provide a track with all differents scenari in bug section.

That's probably why you can still shoot magics from CMN neutral

 

Magics are not selected from the PCA, only from CNM Magic.

MAG/MAV on PCA just activates them or displays they are activated, you can then use MAV search with other weapons selected on PCA or even in Nav mode with no weapons selected.

Yes, I know that PCA doesn't select Magics, thank you. I mean that I can still fire Magics with CNM Neutral, and in MAV Test 3 track you can also see the MAG PCA button with the S light on. If you say that CNM Neutral is bugged, that's ok, that's what I'm reporting as well. Sorry I didn't catch the other post earlier.

More Magic MAV goodies. Now it is possible to use the Magic missiles with other weapons. The missiles will not fire unless selected but they will lock on a target.

.

Does this mean we can shoot S530D without a radar lock, just by using the Magic seeker?

Does this mean we can shoot S530D without a radar lock, just by using the Magic seeker?

No :huh:

Thanks for the clarification. Just to be clear, this thing of being able to combine the magic seeker with other weapons, be AA or AG, confuses me a bit. What's the purpose? in which situations this is nice to use?

Thanks for the clarification. Just to be clear, this thing of being able to combine the magic seeker with other weapons, be AA or AG, confuses me a bit. What's the purpose? in which situations this is nice to use?

Background search, like a poor man's IRST. You can switch and shoot magic instantly, you keep the target even when your radar is notched....

I'm sure there are some other application that I'm too tiered to think of.

Background search, like a poor man's IRST. You can switch and shoot magic instantly, you keep the target even when your radar is notched....

 

I'm sure there are some other application that I'm too tiered to think of.

Agreed, MAV is actually pretty useful !

Yesterday, I was chasing a bandit and lost radar lock behind a mountain, IR seeker found it as soon as I passed the top.

It's also amazing when you are facing a bandit at very low altitude in the mountains; The first who sees the other usually wins, and with MAV you can do a very quick and quiet shot and then turn back.

I noticed MAV tends to "bip" when flying towards the sun (which kind of make sense), is that the actual behaviour ?

NB : Just wanted to thank Zeus, I flew online for a couple of hours yesterday and for the first time in months, I felt like my Mirage was back!

I followed Jojo's advice and used B scope and did not encounter any particular radar bug (even the disappearing box didn't occur). Sometimes I feel that I need to move elevation back and forth so that the radar picks up targets. Not sure if because my joystick axis is wobbling a little or because of the radar itself. Did not check if the elevation displayed min and max altitudes are still bugged. I also tried to bind elevation up and down to buttons instead of axis but it moves very slowly (like 50% compared to the F16 for instance). Can I adjust that somehow ?

Sorry if this has been asked before, but how can I mount D2M ?

Vertical narrow search is alive again and it felt amazing !!

Keep up the good work, my fellow Mirage pilots and I are thrilled right now :)

By the way:

What is the utility of the circle in the center of the HUD, when Magic or 530 missiles are selected, and known at the manual as "flight director circle" ?

(It's the one which gets another smaller circle inside it when ideal firing parameters are met.)

In the manual it only states something like: "contrary to other fighters, this symbol doesn't represent seeker field of view".

By the way:

 

What is the utility of the circle in the center of the HUD, when Magic or 530 missiles are selected, and known at the manual as "flight director circle" ?

(It's the one which gets another smaller circle inside it when ideal firing parameters are met.)

 

In the manual it only states something like: "contrary to other fighters, this symbol doesn't represent seeker field of view".

It's like ASE circle on US fighters.

You put the little square floating in the HUD inside the circle to optimize missile trajectory (energy saving) :smilewink:

It puts you on interception course.

It's like ASE circle on US fighters.

You put the little square floating in the HUD inside the circle to optimize missile trajectory (energy saving) :smilewink:

It puts you on interception course.

Thank you jojo.

I see, so it's the Allowable Steering Error circle... as it looks somewhat simpler than the ones in the F-16, F/A-18, etc, I was in doubt.

Eitherway, the Mirage 2000C's HUD symbology does feel like a fresh air breeze from US fighters symmbols. :thumbup:

(The symbology logic is roughly the same, but the depiction does have its particular characteristics; like the MAV modes square at the top of the HUD, or the triangle symbol for both Magic and Radar lock.)

Only wasn't expecting the Magic seeker to automatically uncage, when in "boresight mode" (whitout Radar lock, and whitout MAV search pattern).

I thought it would be like in the F/A-18 - the pilot must press uncage button to the seeker go after the target.

Thank you jojo.

 

I see, so it's the Allowable Steering Error circle... as it looks somewhat simpler than the ones in the F-16, F/A-18, etc, I was in doubt.

 

Eitherway, the Mirage 2000C's HUD symbology does feel like a fresh air breeze from US fighters symmbols. :thumbup:

(The symbology logic is roughly the same, but the depiction does have its particular characteristics; like the MAV modes square at the top of the HUD, or the triangle symbol for both Magic and Radar lock.)

 

Only wasn't expecting the Magic seeker to automatically uncage, when in "boresight mode" (whitout Radar lock, and whitout MAV search pattern).

 

I thought it would be like in the F/A-18 - the pilot must press uncage button to the seeker go after the target.

Actually now, when you select Magic (without MAV on PCA), you have 2 search patterns:

- vertical search

- narrow search (square corners in the HUD)

You toggle between the two with "Magic unlock".

The Magic will automatically lock on target (no uncage).

And you can slave Magic to radar lock with HOTAS command.

In MAV mode, the vertical search is replaced by horizontal search, elevation at the top of the HUD.

Yes, the ASE is simpler because the range data aren't displayed on it.

Actually now, when you select Magic (without MAV on PCA), you have 2 search patterns:

- vertical search

- narrow search (square corners in the HUD)

You toggle between the two with "Magic unlock".

The Magic will automatically lock on target (no uncage).

And you can slave Magic to radar lock with HOTAS command.

 

In MAV mode, the vertical search is replaced by horizontal search, elevation at the top of the HUD.

 

Yes, the ASE is simpler because the range data aren't displayed on it.

I'm not yet much versed in all of the Magic modes of employment, although I've read the manual, the Chuck's manual also, and this topic.

I just have to play it some more hours.

The 'perception' I've had so far, regarding the several modes of employment:

Seekerhead modes ; toggle with "Magic unlock":

- caged seeker (ADL cross only)

- narrow search (square corners in the HUD)

Radar modes ; toogle with some throttle grip switch:

- vertical search

- boresight search (circle around ADL cross)

- horizontal search

MAV modes ; select MAV on PCA:

- (several search patern geometries I've not studied yet)

- ...

... and I fully understand I might be mixing up several stuff here.