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Old 09-19-2020, 06:27 AM   #71
Milou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinder View Post
Here is my 600W configuration, complete with extra RAM, overclock one extra fan and SATA and I still will have the option to use the Reverb power supply.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sThQTgDfjVg



......
With respect this is a perfect example of someone who has armed himself with an online PSU calculator and made sensible choices for a mid-range PC. Nothing wrong with that. But back to my point: upgrading to "balls to the wall" components like a 10900K overclocked and a 3080 OC or 3090 OC (we are on a thread titled "3090? 3080? AMD!" after all) will require an upgrade to the PSU. How do you do that on your 600W PSU?
  • Nvidia themselves make the point about customers underestimating the impact of PSU age on PSU peak performance.
  • NVidia themselves make the point about customers underestimating the importance of transient responses for PSUs. People making PSU choices based on Wattage alone expected to run into trouble.

Both of these points were made explicitly in the "deep dive Q&A" that Nvidia gave prior to Ampere's launch.

RMAs of Ampere will be higher than average for an Nvidia release.
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Old 09-19-2020, 09:08 AM   #72
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There is no reason why Ampere would have higher RMA rate than any previous generation...

If you're buying a 3080/90, you've probably done at least SOME research and know the power draw of these cards. If you know what you're getting into, it shouldn't be a surprise.

As for power supplies, just like any other component, research will serve you well. If one buys a crap power supply, then you probably won't get the efficiency, power delivery, or lifespan you would get from a quality power supply. My 4-year old 850w Seasonic is on its 2nd full system upgrade and will easily last me through the next upgrade cycle. If you're building a "balls to the wall" build, you're not buying a 500w PSU....Besides, for gaming, no reason to get a 10900k when a 10600k overclocked will perform nearly the same with close to 100w less power draw. Just because something draws a ton of power, doesn't make it the best choice for the job.
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Old 09-19-2020, 09:37 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by EightyDuce View Post
Besides, for gaming, no reason to get a 10900k when a 10600k overclocked will perform nearly the same with close to 100w less power draw.
Of course not. And I don't and never have advocated buying power hungry components for the sake of it. In fact if you check my recent posts you would find that I have been critical of Ampere for being a bit of a power hog. (Problems: noise, heat, energy bill, polar bears).

That is why I have a relatively modest i7-7800X 6 core CPU (which I bought at 50% of RRP) and overclock to 4.8GHz. I think the 10600K is a great value CPU. I see loads of people with that CPU and a mid range motherboard getting 5.0GHz overclocks. For relative peanuts. If I was buying a CPU for DCS and I didn't actually have anything already, that is what I would pick if I had to buy this week. But I would still prefer to wait a few weeks to see what Zen 3 comes up with given the clock speeds are rumoured to be reaching 4.9 boost, boost is likely to be maintained for longer, and IPC is rumoured to be improved 20% on Zen 2.

But the point is that my PSU operates in silent mode with passive cooling only. And my system is easily upgradable to ANYTHING I throw at it without having to upgrade PSU. I don't even have to think about it. It is a non issue for a component I only have to buy once where technology is moving relatively slowly. And - personal choice - I built my own custom PSU cables to correct lengths. Not changing PSU for a long time means that I can stick with my custom PSU cables without worrying about any potential compatibility problems.

Likewise I spent a lot on my case. But it means that I never have to buy another PC case. Like ever.

Someone that a year ago was sat there with an online calculator that spat out the answer 650W power supply and is now looking to upgrade to a 3080 - or heaven forbid a 3090 - is now facing the prospect of buying a new PSU as well as a new GPU. Whereas if they had only bought an 850W PSU to begin with they would only have to upgrade one component.

That is my point.
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Old 09-19-2020, 10:42 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milou View Post
With respect this is a perfect example of someone who has armed himself with an online PSU calculator and made sensible choices for a mid-range PC. Nothing wrong with that. But back to my point: upgrading to "balls to the wall" components like a 10900K overclocked and a 3080 OC or 3090 OC (we are on a thread titled "3090? 3080? AMD!" after all) will require an upgrade to the PSU. How do you do that on your 600W PSU?
  • Nvidia themselves make the point about customers underestimating the impact of PSU age on PSU peak performance.
  • NVidia themselves make the point about customers underestimating the importance of transient responses for PSUs. People making PSU choices based on Wattage alone expected to run into trouble.

Both of these points were made explicitly in the "deep dive Q&A" that Nvidia gave prior to Ampere's launch.

RMAs of Ampere will be higher than average for an Nvidia release.

You don't read post fully before replying.

My PSU is certified for continuous 750W output, my graph is that of predicted full PC upgrade including overclock plus one more fan and one more SATA than planed = 606W.

In terms of power output, I have 150W to play with, I don't give a damned what Nvidia does, they obviously can't provide with performances without increasing power demands, which AMD does.

If they are unable to provide me with something that doesn't require a change of new PSU I'll go to AMD and it won't be the first time I swap, here is one reason: 50% gain in performance with no increase in power drain, from my PoV, that's what technology should do for us, not an increase to 750W requirement for one single GPU.


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Last edited by Thinder; 09-19-2020 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 09-19-2020, 10:45 AM   #75
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It comes down to how much future proofing you want to do. Are you building a system for a 1, 2, 3, or more year upgrade cycle. If you're building a budget PC with a 500-600w PSU, you're probably not the target audience for a "flagship" or high end card. If you're what the market considers and enthusiasts or overclocker, you probably have a sufficient (750w+) PSU. While some underestimate their power draw, I would argue that just as many overestimate their power draw as your hardware is hardly ever stressed to full loads (gaming).

We're getting a bit off-track but this is a good watch:

https://youtu.be/X_wtoCBahhM
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Old 09-19-2020, 11:24 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EightyDuce View Post
It comes down to how much future proofing you want to do. Are you building a system for a 1, 2, 3, or more year upgrade cycle. If you're building a budget PC with a 500-600w PSU, you're probably not the target audience for a "flagship" or high end card. If you're what the market considers and enthusiasts or overclocker, you probably have a sufficient (750w+) PSU. While some underestimate their power draw, I would argue that just as many overestimate their power draw as your hardware is hardly ever stressed to full loads (gaming).

We're getting a bit off-track but this is a good watch:

https://youtu.be/X_wtoCBahhM

That's right, I got my 1080Ti 11GB from CEX, basically new for £361 including exchange voucher from my previous GPU, I'm not going to get into an upgrade that's require changing my PSU now when I'm planning around a budget.

I planned with 64GB of RAM which I will not have before I buy the HP headset, since my PC meets required amount of RAM and its main limitation is cooling, I'll get a good case with 3 120mm fans first and an Arctic Freezer 7 for the CPU.

I'll play safe while overclocking just enough to get smooth gaming at higher res in VR, it should last me for a couple of years.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...81&postcount=4


...
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Last edited by Thinder; 09-19-2020 at 11:32 AM.
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