[W.I.P] Comparison of nightly cockpits: before and after recent update

Will the illumination of the consoles them selves be improved ? You are not supposed to be flying with full flood lights at night, or am I incorrect ?

Well, looking forward to seeing the changes !

Just made a sanity check with some real (mil) pilots and they said that they barely ever have to use them while flying and in general you want minimum light, just as much as to read all your displays and instruments

Well, looking forward to seeing the changes !

 

Just made a sanity check with some real (mil) pilots and they said that they barely ever have to use them while flying and in general you want minimum light, just as much as to read all your displays and instruments

. . . and controls.

You don't need any flood light at all to read displays and instruments.

They all are backlighted - as well in the old as in the new pit.

But what about buttons, switches and turning knobs?

How to you find them safely in dark without pawing the panel in order to find the right control?

How can you find e.g. the MASTER ARM SW ? Fumbling around?

With flood light as it was before one could adjust the flood light level to as little as possible but as much as necessary.

I assume that any real (mil or civ) pilot is preferring this solution.

The light from the switches should be illuminating enough the cockpit and your eyes should adapt naturally... both thing which are not present in DCS

. . . and controls.

 

You don't need any flood light at all to read displays and instruments.

They all are backlighted - as well in the old as in the new pit.

 

But what about buttons, switches and turning knobs?

How to you find them safely in dark without pawing the panel in order to find the right control?

How can you find e.g. the MASTER ARM SW ? Fumbling around?

 

With flood light as it was before one could adjust the flood light level to as little as possible but as much as necessary.

I assume that any real (mil or civ) pilot is preferring this solution.

In reality, in a real cockpit, you just know where everything is, its muscle memory like i dont have to look at my thrustmaster throttle anymore to hit the autopilot mode selector or flaps switch. I just reach where i have reached hundreds of times before already.

You dont need light to find your own nose, right? Thats exactly how it works.

When it comes to our virtual cockpit, a pro tip: calibrate your monitors, thats what i did after new pit release and its been an eyeopener (phun intended).

I got a dirt cheap iiyama 2483 powered by an overaged GTX950 and no problem locating all switches now even without flood light and just instrument backlight on. So there is no "muh cheap hardware" excuse.

NVG to find the emergency flood light switch cold and dark (or check your controls settings for the hotkey) and from there its really no big issue at all. Saying no big issue because indeed it could be a bit brighter so everything is easier to see. But saying the new pit is unusable at night is far from true and its quite okay as it is until the lighting tweak is made public.

Back to calibrating: like probably 90% of all users i had my monitor uncalibrated and at brightness and contrast cranked up ~100% plus some fancy gaming color enhancement activated in the past (yep, check it right now).

I put it down to 55% brightness, 45% contrast during the calibration process (thats different for every monitor, google "monitor calibration", theres more than enough easy to understand HOWTOs out there, do it, it takes like 10 minutes) ingame gamma to 1.8 (here again you need to find a setting that fits your calibrated monitor, take some time to fiddle around and find a natural looking setting) and let some days pass to accustom (DCS and Windows desktop wise).

First i thought "wow, thats dark and pale" but thats really due to being used to a badly oversaturated monitor setting. Lowering brightness and contrast might sound counterproductive, but having set everything to a natural level really makes spotting things way easier.

Try it for a few days, then put in your old settings and undergo "eye cancer mode".

TLDR: Admittedly the lighting could use some tweaking, but most of the "muh nighthog unusable" whining i have read on forums for 2 weeks now most likely is due to bad monitor and gamma settings clientwise.

Left image is a screenshot taken from an old stable version (2.5.3.24984) and the right image was taken from the recent open beta (2.5.5.41372)

I have this effect when lighting is already turn on, like In instant action missions with knobs only In half position. When I turn the knobs to the max is more like In Bignewy screenshots.

In reality, in a real cockpit, you just know where everything is, its muscle memory like i dont have to look at my thrustmaster throttle anymore to hit the autopilot mode selector or flaps switch. I just reach where i have reached hundreds of times before already.

You dont need light to find your own nose, right? Thats exactly how it works.

 

When it comes to our virtual cockpit, a pro tip: calibrate your monitors, thats what i did after new pit release and its been an eyeopener (phun intended).

I got a dirt cheap iiyama 2483 powered by an overaged GTX950 and no problem locating all switches now even without flood light and just instrument backlight on. So there is no "muh cheap hardware" excuse.

 

NVG to find the emergency flood light switch cold and dark (or check your controls settings for the hotkey) and from there its really no big issue at all. Saying no big issue because indeed it could be a bit brighter so everything is easier to see. But saying the new pit is unusable at night is far from true and its quite okay as it is until the lighting tweak is made public.

 

Back to calibrating: like probably 90% of all users i had my monitor uncalibrated and at brightness and contrast cranked up ~100% plus some fancy gaming color enhancement activated in the past (yep, check it right now).

I put it down to 55% brightness, 45% contrast during the calibration process (thats different for every monitor, google "monitor calibration", theres more than enough easy to understand HOWTOs out there, do it, it takes like 10 minutes) ingame gamma to 1.8 (here again you need to find a setting that fits your calibrated monitor, take some time to fiddle around and find a natural looking setting) and let some days pass to accustom (DCS and Windows desktop wise).

 

First i thought "wow, thats dark and pale" but thats really due to being used to a badly oversaturated monitor setting. Lowering brightness and contrast might sound counterproductive, but having set everything to a natural level really makes spotting things way easier.

 

Try it for a few days, then put in your old settings and undergo "eye cancer mode".

 

TLDR: Admittedly the lighting could use some tweaking, but most of the "muh nighthog unusable" whining i have read on forums for 2 weeks now most likely is due to bad monitor and gamma settings clientwise.

Just a word to your detailed „calibrate your monitor right“ story.

I have an EIZO monitor, neither a professional one nor a poor man’s version. I always use the predefined RGB settings.

Before I started „muh nighthog whining“ here, I have of course tried to play with all non RGB monitor settings available on my monitor.

Cranking up and playing with brightness, contrast or gamma didn’t really help:

Cockpit displays and outside sceneries were becoming horribly outshined at best, unreadable mostly.

Which is logical, as the main problem in my view is the dynamic range of the monitor.

(You - and ED devs - obviously have a good one in relation to dynamic range)

Let’s assume I didn’t calibration right.

But with this „badly calibrated monitor“ I was able to fly the Hog without issues at night, for years – but before the pit upgrade!

And with this badly calibrated monitor I still can fly all of my other 11 DCS modules, comfortably at night and day.

No monitor calibration needed, that is (was) the charme of ED's 2.5 imaging engine.

I hadn’t have any monitor related visualization problems with any of my modules - until the recent Hog update.

I think a software modification (as ED already announced) will make any monitor calibrating obsolete.

Recalibrating the monitor each time after a mission or module change can’t be a solution.

From a muh whining Hog pilot in his freshly serviced A-10C on night mission.

Just :lol: love it.

Even some daylight illuminations are wrong IMHO: fire handles do not illuminate if I test lights, and caution light panel is too faded and barely noticeable.

Even some daylight illuminations are wrong IMHO: fire handles do not illuminate if I test lights, and caution light panel is too faded and barely noticeable.

Still have to stand on your head for the fire handles to be on the appropriate sides as well... :doh:

Cheers,

Don (callsign Ziptie)

Even some daylight illuminations are wrong IMHO: fire handles do not illuminate if I test lights, and caution light panel is too faded and barely noticeable.

Yet another case of non-calibrated monitor. Fire handles actually illuminate and signal lights panel is just fine.

Yet another case of non-calibrated monitor . . .

. . . still "muh non-calibrated monitor" whining?

ED, forget about lighting impovements which have been announced today.

("This will be most evident at night when viewing the cockpits")

Not needed, we'll calibrate our monitors and fly happily ever after.

Seriously, I’m glad ED comes back to the lighting issues and I’m looking forward to see the results.

. . . still "muh non-calibrated monitor" whining?

 

ED, forget about lighting impovements which have been announced today.

("This will be most evident at night when viewing the cockpits")

Not needed, we'll calibrate our monitors and fly happily ever after.

 

Seriously, I’m glad ED comes back to the lighting issues and I’m looking forward to see the results.

:lol: You're totally right, buddy.

Also please don't forget to recalibrate your Joystick after each Mission and fully decalibrate after playing :megalol: In fact, ED should provide Software that does it for you. One shouldn't really be forced to do all this brating stuff.

I’m also VERY glad that ED comes back to the lighting issues and I’m also looking forward to see the results!

The poor lighting at dusk / night has NOTHING to do with the calibration

(or lack of it) of the monitors!

Yet another case of non-calibrated monitor. Fire handles actually illuminate and signal lights panel is just fine.

Are you even for real?

I think it looks realistic. Seems alright to me and I don't have too much of a problem seeing at night. Sometimes it's difficult but that's how it was in RL too. The lettering on the panels should be brighter and sharper. The fire lights are a bit dim.That could use a little boost. I've been in real bomber cockpit at night with panel lighting on and it is dark in there. You can't see much except the lettering.

Gamma: 1.8

Cockpit Global illumination: OFF

Dynamic Contrast:OFF

Mode:Standard

LED:MSI AG32C

I think it looks realistic. Seems alright to me and I don't have much of a problem seeing at night. Maybe the text on the panels could be illuminated a bit brighter and crisper? The fire lights are a bit dim though.That could use a little boost. I've been in real bomber cockpit at night with panel lighting on and it is dark in there. You can't see much except the lettering.

 

Gamma: 1.8

Cockpit Global illumination: OFF

Dynamic Contrast:OFF

Mode:Standard

LED:MSI AG32C

how can you surely find controls, e.g. knobs, pushbuttons and switches in this darkness ?

how can you surely find controls, e.g. knobs, pushbuttons and switches in this darkness ?

That's how it was in the bomber I was in. I could barely see the switches with out the flood light on. Same goes for the 737 cockpit I saw at night. Couldn't see any switches on the overhead panel. Only the back light for the lettering. And flying at night is scary. It's pitch black out those windows. Maybe a few store lights from afar but down below looks like a bottomless abyss. Unless you're around a major city you can't see anything. X-Plane does a great job of rendering proper nights if you want to compare. Aren't there a few real world A-10 pilots on this board? Maybe than can clarify what the cockpit looks like at night. The green floods in game might be a bit brighter in RL.

You're right - the lighting does "feel" right...everything you read or hear remarks how dark it is...think how scary "RL" pilots find electical failures...trying to find switches by hand...shining a flashlight to find them

BUT

In a "RL" cockpit you can find the switches by touch...a sense we don't have in DCS...muscle memory allows us to know where they are in "static" situations such as start up...but there are some nooks and crannies in the cockpit that are VERY dark...and when you're flying and moving your head it can be very hard to find one or two switches/buttons when you've been moving your head around...and you end up "fishing for them" with the mouse until you get the green "active symbol" - the AAR lever is one i struggle with when its really dark, unless i have my view "locked" straight ahead...

Just port a flashlight into the A10C cockpit and problem solved. Especially if it is going to take an extended period of time to address the “issue” with the current lighting in the new pit.

Surely that is a simply “cut and paste” from the F/A-18C Hornet...... I’d hope for the normal and green filter as well - since NVGs are an obvious utilized tool with the 10C.

Cheers,

Don (callsign Ziptie)

Anyone see any change in yesterdays update? I do not.

Ah I see. I thought this was going to be fixed in this update as you mentioned you already saw it fixed in your build. Np, thanks!