SD-10

Finally some progress :)

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4146438#post4146438

Yep, but now Deka has to revisit the sd-10 to take into account these new modifications, particulary readjusting the SD-10 launch distance since ED increased the aim120 launch distance to 10 -20%

What. Only future changes I know of is when new missile guidance API is out. Both used CFD, what future modifications?

Yep, but now Deka has to revisit the sd-10 to take into account these new modifications, particulary readjusting the SD-10 launch distance since ED increased the aim120 launch distance to 10 -20%

That doesn't mean that the SD-10 or other missiles necessarily need an increase in range as well (some do, but not the SD-10). The SD-10 already performed well from the beginning (some say a little too well, but I'll stay out of this).

ED didn't arbitrarily increase the AMRAAM range, they did CFD for it and adjusted the drag curve, hopefully bringing the missile closer to its real life counterparts. It was common knowledge that the AMRAAM needed an adjustment.

That doesn't mean that the SD-10 or other missiles necessarily need an increase in range as well (some do, but not the SD-10). The SD-10 already performed well from the beginning (some say a little too well, but I'll stay out of this).

SD-10 launch distance was recently lower to be between amram B/C, but since ED increase launch distance of AMRAM AB/C, SD10 launch distance need to be reajust.

Simple as that.

SD-10 launch distance was recently lower to be between amram B/C, but since ED increase launch distance of AMRAM AB/C, SD10 launch distance need to be reajust.

 

Simple as that.

Did it? I don't remember reading anything like that in Wednesday's changelog. If that's the case, then yeah, I guess so.

No, I do not think it did?

SD-10 was never adjusted to fit between 120 B/C AFAIK. So there is no adjustment necessary to SD-10 provided its correct. As there was no reduction/etc to make it fit between amraams. AFAIK there have been only two version of SD-10 released to public, that being what the JF-17 released with and the other version that was provided ~3 days ago.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16vBb9wOABGp7iaxYIk5r7c_cYTFB3Xlfm0VNHdoElII/edit?usp=sharing

^ the above is the version of the missile I believe we had on release.

The changes ~3 days ago did as follows for the same tests from above. Slight performance different, and confirmed changes in the file.

15.5 vs 15.65 5000ft

21.29 vs 19nm 16000ft

32.5 vs 33nm 32000ft

Right being new (most recent) left being referenced from the above document.

Apparently amraam got a 10-20% boost today, I have not done tests to confirm.

SD-10

why deka is not clarifying there stand about SD-10 cuz i am seeing alot of chat about its not simulated real and overwhelming and maybe they will reduce SD-10 ability's i dont want to be understand wrong i just wanna know are we will face one day SD-10 downgrade ??

why deka is not clarifying there stand about SD-10 cuz i am seeing alot of chat about its not simulated real and overwhelming and maybe they will reduce SD-10 ability's i dont want to be understand wrong i just wanna know are we will face one day SD-10 downgrade ??

they just reduce the ability

what exactly ?

why deka is not clarifying there stand about SD-10 cuz i am seeing alot of chat about its not simulated real and overwhelming and maybe they will reduce SD-10 ability's i dont want to be understand wrong i just wanna know are we will face one day SD-10 downgrade ??

They did already, twice. Do you even own the module? Also ED has buffed the AIM-120C so quit complaining.

no i have JF-17 but i am traveling so i can't play

i am sorry but what do u mean by quit complaining ??

Just few days back similar thread was locked because nato boys came raging here demanding SD-10 to be nerfed because they claimed it was not realistic when compared with DCS AIM-120C.

You are here doing the same, claiming it is unrealistic and demanding Deka to give you some proof without you yourself giving any valid reason behind it other than some chat somewhere said so.

and u just ignored that i said dont understand me wrong part ?? u need glasses ?? and yes i demand that cuz all wiki in all over web talking about SD-10 range is 70 KM and we have less than that so yes my point of asking not cuz they overwhelming SD-10 cuz we have the weaker version that is not even exist

and u just ignored that i said dont understand me wrong part ?? u need glasses ?? and yes i demand that cuz all wiki in all over web talking about SD-10 range is 70 KM and we have less than that so yes my point of asking not cuz they overwhelming SD-10 cuz we have the weaker version that is not even exist

Then I simply misunderstood you, I apologise. I will not discuss this any further because your wording is not clear for me to understand (My problem, Not yours).

Regarding the missile out performing or underperforming, you might want to provide some ingame proof for developers to go by. Also link your sources for the range claim studies.

as i said wiki sites

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL-12

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/PL-12

https://books.google.com.kw/books?id=AnpJDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT215&lpg=PT215&dq=sd-10+missile&source=bl&ots=F453saOfnc&sig=ACfU3U0oTAxyXnjb39UD_7f3XXwcJaq8hQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjh2Y6DusXmAhWjkFwKHeNcAO8Q6AEwHXoECA4QAQ#v=onepage&q=sd-10%20missile&f=false

https://books.google.com.kw/books?id=f0TCkit3c6QC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=sd-10+missile&source=bl&ots=FhOg3n4uaO&sig=ACfU3U2oZqeSvoRqCnqKAwuzhgZt-iBC7Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiThNCeu8XmAhXHYMAKHQEAAX84ChDoATAEegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=sd-10%20missile&f=false

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/PL-12

and maybe there is more

70km is the most cited range of all the wikis you posted. 70km is just under 40nm which is possible in DCS. Some of your sources give a range of 70-100km. 100km is about 54nm shots. Haven’t seen any shots that far, but have seen quite a few successful shots just over 40 nm.

The SD-10 we have uses the real life aerodynamic co efficients and reaches the bottom end of ranges in public sources, which seems about right to me. Make of that what you will. It didn’t matter what the real range is, people were always going to talk and complain because so many other BVR missiles in DCS need work for more realistic range, along with people who think it must be slowed down until the day AMRAAM is updated. Wait that was today.... AMRAAM still has work to do, and when the guidance API is available a lot of things will change for the better in all fox 3s.

And something I always find interesting is that almost everyone cheered for the realistic range of the Phoenix. There’s been only a few people who constantly open threads about it being OP lol

70km is the most cited range of all the wikis you posted. 70km is just under 40nm which is possible in DCS. Some of your sources give a range of 70-100km. 100km is about 54nm shots. Haven’t seen any shots that far, but have seen quite a few successful shots just over 40 nm.

 

The SD-10 we have uses the real life aerodynamic co efficients and reaches the bottom end of ranges in public sources, which seems about right to me. Make of that what you will. It didn’t matter what the real range is, people were always going to talk and complain because so many other BVR missiles in DCS need work for more realistic range, along with people who think it must be slowed down until the day AMRAAM is updated. Wait that was today.... AMRAAM still has work to do, and when the guidance API is available a lot of things will change for the better in all fox 3s.

 

And something I always find interesting is that almost everyone cheered for the realistic range of the Phoenix. There’s been only a few people who constantly open threads about it being OP lol

yes u are right 100% they are complaining cuz BVR missiles in dcs need work i just hate people just complaining without proof maybe i wrote my question not complete or i phrase it wrong all i want to say Deka is doing not just great job they know what they are doing i dont want to see downgrade for SD-10 cuz people complaining

Don’t worry. It is in good hands, Deka is committed to realism and will not change it to unrealistic values. There are limitations of the missile API such as not being able to make nozzle performance accurate at all possible altitudes, but all DCS suffers from that and Deka have done the best possible until more advanced guidance API is out. We should see it on Phoenix first which should give us some idea of what it will be like.

I’m personally hoping for the target size selection to have an effect, jamming of missiles, radar memory, multiple PRF if applicable, I Tthink midcourse uldates as they are right now have been said to be too perfect, should be fun. The Phoenix needs it becuase it only goes active from AWG-9 command, which is impossible currently in DCS

thx for this good conversation sorry if someone understand me wrong not my intention of downgrade SD-10 but upgrade

70km is the most cited range of all the wikis you posted. 70km is just under 40nm which is possible in DCS. Some of your sources give a range of 70-100km. 100km is about 54nm shots. Haven’t seen any shots that far, but have seen quite a few successful shots just over 40 nm.

For info. testing M1.2 @ 32,800 ft (10,000m) head on vs a non-manoeuvring target (MiG-23).

DCS JF-17 vs MiG-23

Radar TWS detection @ 60 NM

Max range successful SD-10 @ 47 NM (87 km)

(impact @ 790 TAS i.e. shorter time of flight and higher pk**)

In range HUD cue @ 38 NM (70 km)

DCS FA-18C vs MiG-23

Radar TWS detection/lock @ 70 NM

Max range successful AIM-120C @ 44 NM (81 km)

(impact @ 520 TAS i.e. almost stalling)

AIM-120C Radar Max LAR range* = ~44NM

Below 500 TAS, increased AoA/drag causes both missiles to fall

* Doesn't match HUD cues in 2.5.5.41371

** Takes 2 SD-10 hits to down the MiG-23

For info. testing M1.2 @ 32,800 ft (10,000m) head on vs a non-manoeuvring target (MiG-23).

 

DCS JF-17 vs MiG-23

Radar TWS detection @ 58 NM

Max range successful SD-10 @ 47 NM (87 km)

(impact @ 790 TAS i.e. shorter time of flight and higher pk)

In range HUD cue @ 38 NM (70 km)

 

DCS FA-18C vs MiG-23

Radar TWS detection/lock @ 70 NM

Max range successful AIM-120C @ 44 NM (81 km)

(impact @ 520 TAS i.e. almost stalling)

AIM-120C Radar Max LAR range* = ~44NM

 

Below 500 TAS, increased AoA/drag causes both missiles to fall

 

*Doesn't match HUD cues in 2.5.5.41371

this test after last patch or before it ?

this test after last patch or before it ?

this is what I want to know also. It was patch day when AIM-120 got a boost.

I'm honestly, as a UK person not taking this odd mindset that SD-10 has to be inferior, the AIM120 has been around in various pieces on the floor for many years and the Chinese are specifically extremely good at copying stuff and producing them better. The real problem is that simulating these weapons, which are always state secrets is about modelling to the best data available and the arguments are always futile. Even when people quote something scientific to back up an argument, there are still enough unknown parameters to render sensible arguments moot.

Right now the missiles are close enough that Pilot skill can be the decider and that is a great thing for PvP at least. For SP, it's not really a big deal, you set the mission yourselves.