Su-27 / Su-33: No Radar when inverted below 1500m - Page 3 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-12-2019, 10:43 AM   #21
100KIAP_Falcon
Senior Member
 
100KIAP_Falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Република Српска
Posts: 1,261
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
Do you have a back up for not losing it? The documentation is more against your position than not.

Like I said, you already have a back up for this, so use it. The IRST was added exactly for these situations, not for 'sneak attacks'.
It's a back up for the crappy radar. In RL.
Later versions of the flanker got a much improved radar both on the computing power side and the antenna (planar array vs cassegrain) ... But that's not the model you have.
Backup? For what is backup? To just lock and show you where is target and we need manualy relock with radar even system automatic switch from RL to EO. If system is so smart as is why is not enough smart to relock with RL (and continue guiding missile) if EO still know where is target. (RL already smartly pointed where is target to EOS - so why not from EO to RL automatic too).

Just asking... i don't know how that thing works in RL. But logic tell me that if Radar Lock can point EO on target and lock by same weapon system then EO can send info trough same system to the Radar and relock target by radar lock.
__________________



www: 100KIAP Virtual Shipborne Fighter Aviation Regiment
Forum: https://www.100kiap.org/forum/index.php
Discord: https://discord.gg/EGrVBHt
Teamspeak: 100kiap.teamspeak3.com

If you are a dedicated Flanker pilot, a team player ... join us !!!

100-й Корабельный Истребительный Авиационный Полк

Немој ништа силом, узми већи чекић!
100KIAP_Falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 11:33 AM   #22
BlackPixxel
Junior Member
 
BlackPixxel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 81
Default

I also wonder if the radar should keep illuminating if a missile has been launched and the system switches to EO backup.
From my understanding the radar would still be slaved to the EO system and even if the radar itself does not have a lock anymore there is no need to stop illuminating. Maybe there would be no datalink updates for the missile when the target is out of the laser rangefinder limits, but the homing of the missile seeker itself should still work.
BlackPixxel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 12:13 PM   #23
Weta43
Veteran
 
Weta43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Aro Valley Wellington New Zealand
Posts: 6,944
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknetinium View Post
Some other capabilities would get implemented that would make the flanker 2 time better not weaker. A lot of people would not disgruntle to fly it just for that reason.
Maybe, but the N001 has the same processor as and a scaled up version of the antenna from, the N019.

The N019's beam is only stabilised up to 120º in roll and +40º/-30º in pitch - so the 'feature' that has been implemented seems fair enough...

Before various upgrades both had the same radar modes, including:

"Encounter" mode (target closing):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overscan
(…)uses a High PRF mode which can detect closing targets only in the velocity range of 230 - 2500km/h at altitudes from 30m to 23,000m. The display is calibrated to a maximum range of 150km.

Lockon and transition to tracking mode takes 2 to 7 seconds in Encounter mode.

Note that in Encounter mode, a target that changes direction to a tail-on engagement may be lost even when in tracking mode, if it is no longer closing.
So two to SEVEN seconds to get a lock, no detection if the targets closing speed is less than 230km/h, and if the target turns away, you'll probably lose lock even if you are in STT.

Pursuit mode won't detect targets receding at less than 210 km/h, and:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overscan
In practise it is used only when necessary, as it is prone to displaying false targets from ground clutter especially at low altitudes. Marsh land, marshy forests and flood plains give greatest clutter problems. When multiple false returns are present, the pilot should compare visible targets with the calculated target range supplied by datalink from GCI controller to determine the correct target.
Interleaved mode will detect targets approaching at speeds greater than 230km/h or receding at speeds more than 210km/h

(Meaning targets with a relative ground speed of between +230km/h & -210km/h won't be detected. That's a big notch, then it will take between 2 and 7 seconds to re-acquire the lock).

& it does automatically mimic the functions of TWS, but:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overscan
It is considered by pilots to be quite problematic, overloading the data computer and generating numerous false returns
__________________
Cheers.
Weta43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 12:46 PM   #24
Teknetinium
Senior Member
 
Teknetinium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,499
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
Do you have a back up for not losing it? The documentation is more against your position than not.

Like I said, you already have a back up for this, so use it. The IRST was added exactly for these situations, not for 'sneak attacks'.
It's a back up for the crappy radar. In RL.
Later versions of the flanker got a much improved radar both on the computing power side and the antenna (planar array vs cassegrain) ... But that's not the model you have.
Where is you data from that the radar is losing lock passing 120 degree in roll apart from EDs F15 manual?
Teknetinium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 01:17 PM   #25
Fri13
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,265
Default

Ain't that the limitation from the radar roll stabilization that is required to be done to keep radar wave polarization intact?

Meaning, once you roll past the radar roll gimba limit, your radar polarization is gone and can't detect the returns.
__________________
i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 1080Ti SLI 11GB, Oculus CV1.
i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 60" HDR 4K.
Fri13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 01:20 PM   #26
Fri13
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weta43 View Post

(Meaning targets with a relative ground speed of between +230km/h & -210km/h won't be detected. That's a big notch, then it will take between 2 and 7 seconds to re-acquire the lock).

& it does automatically mimic the functions of TWS, but:
IIRC that is from the Su-27SK manual, that the western aircrafts notch is as well from 70-80 degree toward the radar. So it is not exact 90 degree but enough that you put western fighter to your 8-10 clock and 2-4 clock position and you are perfectly notching.
__________________
i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 1080Ti SLI 11GB, Oculus CV1.
i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 60" HDR 4K.
Fri13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 03:42 PM   #27
oreste
Junior Member
 
oreste's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Alessandria Italia
Posts: 26
Default

It could also be that the change in structure forces the system to redo a series of calculations to ensure the exact route of the missile, given the computational capacity of the processors of that time it may be that too many movements in a restricted time space send the computer in "tilt". The calculations are perhaps not so complex but must take place within a given time, in particular I think that the most difficult moment is when the missile goes at maximum speed in its path.
__________________
My dream: DCS Tornado
oreste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 05:53 PM   #28
GGTharos
Veteran
 
GGTharos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 30,107
Default

Fair question; I don't know, you'll have to ask Chizh about that - he had some comments on this, but I only vaguely remember that something was said about this, not what was said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100KIAP_Falcon View Post
Just asking... i don't know how that thing works in RL. But logic tell me that if Radar Lock can point EO on target and lock by same weapon system then EO can send info trough same system to the Radar and relock target by radar lock.
__________________

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump
I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 05:55 PM   #29
GGTharos
Veteran
 
GGTharos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 30,107
Default

At the distances you would expect to use this, I imagine the datalink would be a non-issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPixxel View Post
I also wonder if the radar should keep illuminating if a missile has been launched and the system switches to EO backup.
From my understanding the radar would still be slaved to the EO system and even if the radar itself does not have a lock anymore there is no need to stop illuminating. Maybe there would be no datalink updates for the missile when the target is out of the laser rangefinder limits, but the homing of the missile seeker itself should still work.
__________________

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump
I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 05:57 PM   #30
GGTharos
Veteran
 
GGTharos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 30,107
Default

Where is yours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknetinium View Post
Where is you data from that the radar is losing lock passing 120 degree in roll apart from EDs F15 manual?
__________________

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump
I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:25 PM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.