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Old 06-29-2019, 10:01 PM   #11
Ironhand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFire View Post
This.

For some additional info, check this thread:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.p...hlight=Landing
Yes, though the training mission has you with 100% fuel and at Beslan with no ILS. I just edited my last post to replace the video with a new one.
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Old 06-29-2019, 11:18 PM   #12
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Find a runway in DCS that has side markings. Many of the runways only have basic ones. It should help with your sight picture.

One of the most basic rules [without an ILS flight director] taught over the past almost 80 years is that [nose] pitch controls approach speed, and power settings control your altitude [glide path]. Although, you will use a combo of both.

I just got the F5 in this current sale and loved shooting approaching with it. Hit my first one. While I 95% fly helicopters, the F5 is going to be my goto fixed wing when I just want to fly. There is a reason NASA uses the T-38:
""Astronauts, who are pilots maintain flying proficiency by flying 15
hours per month in NASA’s fleet of two-seat T38 jets. Non-pilot
astronauts fly a minimum of 4 hours per month. The T38 is used for
flight readiness training to help the astronauts become adjusted to
the flight environment, including the g-forces experienced on launch.""


That said, I did a quick search. You might find this helpful: http://code7700.com/aim_point_vs_touchdown_point.htm

[EDIT] My point being is once you see what normal approaches look like, over and over, running one in IMC is not as hard. Just don't try it IRL.

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Old 07-02-2019, 09:33 PM   #13
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Yes, though the training mission has you with 100% fuel and at Beslan with no ILS. I just edited my last post to replace the video with a new one.
It's a shame the training mission has you at 100% fuel. Having to land fast due to weight really won't be helpful for newcomers to the Su-27. I guess it was programmed that way to give the player plenty of chances to go around.

It'd almost be worth flying lazy orbits whilst dumping fuel for 7-8 minutes to get down to a realistic landing weight.
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Old 07-02-2019, 09:55 PM   #14
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It's a shame the training mission has you at 100% fuel. Having to land fast due to weight really won't be helpful for newcomers to the Su-27. I guess it was programmed that way to give the player plenty of chances to go around...
...for hours and hours with that fuel load. It took me by surprise. I was expecting 30-40% which would have been plenty. I looked down and thought: this should be interesting.
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFire View Post
It's a shame the training mission has you at 100% fuel. Having to land fast due to weight really won't be helpful for newcomers to the Su-27. I guess it was programmed that way to give the player plenty of chances to go around.
It's supposed to be of hard difficulty - not at all catered for newcomers. Otoh it's a training mission - I'm confused
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:26 PM   #16
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It's supposed to be of hard difficulty - not at all catered for newcomers. Otoh it's a training mission - I'm confused
Yeah, I can understand why they did it, but it makes little sense: having that much fuel puts the Su-27 WAY above the actual maximum permitted landing weight which makes for an unrealistic training mission. Outside of a mission aborted straight after takeoff I can't really think of a sim scenario which would mandate landing at such a heavy weight.

The difficulty in this mission should come from essentially being forced to do an IFR landing rather than having unusual and unhelpful flight characteristics during the approach and touchdown. Heavy landings could have much more effectively been taught during a separate "mission abort" training scenario.

30% fuel would have allowed for plenty of go-arounds while also providing much more realistic landing characteristics.
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Old 07-04-2019, 08:18 AM   #17
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Although not realistic to land with 100% fuel - being heavy is the last thing to worry in this mission. Crosswind messing with your lineup, keeping the glideslope and right thrust, constantly trimming, all with poor to none visibility makes it a lot harder than any heavy VFR landing.



I did it pretty well once although am not consistent at all after trying again multiple times later. Su is not my usual ride.
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Old 07-04-2019, 06:11 PM   #18
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Although not realistic to land with 100% fuel - being heavy is the last thing to worry in this mission. Crosswind messing with your lineup, keeping the glideslope and right thrust, constantly trimming, all with poor to none visibility makes it a lot harder than any heavy VFR landing.

I did it pretty well once although am not consistent at all after trying again multiple times later. Su is not my usual ride.
I agree, and I think this is what makes it a poor training mission. There should be a number of training missions:

1) Standard weight landing in perfect weather.
2) Heavy landing in perfect weather.
3) Low fuel "emergency" landing in perfect weather.
4) Standard landing in high wind.
5) Standard landing in poor visibility with low wind.
6) Standard landing in poor visibility with higher wind.
7) Standard landing in winter conditions / low runway surface grip.

Then repeat each scenario but this time at night.

Being thrown in to a "lol, sucks to be you" scenario simply isn't realistic. One final point: the range of a DCS Su-27 with no weapons and a full fuel load is well in excess of 2,000Km. Under the conditions in that training mission the only sensible approach would be to contact control and request a divert airfield, many of which could easily be reached.
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:54 AM   #19
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I agree, and I think this is what makes it a poor training mission. There should be a number of training missions
Yes, I agree. We can quickly make them in ME but the text and VOs should be amended accordingly. Otherwise there should be a warning - "Do not attempt unless you're higly trained IMC pilot! Any deviation from onspeed and glideslope on final shall be considered high risk and missed approach!"

Quote:
Under the conditions in that training mission the only sensible approach would be to contact control and request a divert airfield, many of which could easily be reached.
That can only help with crosswind unless dynamic weather is set.
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Old 07-05-2019, 07:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draconus View Post
Yes, I agree. We can quickly make them in ME but the text and VOs should be amended accordingly. Otherwise there should be a warning - "Do not attempt unless you're higly trained IMC pilot! Any deviation from onspeed and glideslope on final shall be considered high risk and missed approach!"


That can only help with crosswind unless dynamic weather is set.
Maybe this could be the final exam. I was playing around with Matt’s mission and decided to lower the ceiling as well as some other adjustments to make my palms sweat a bit. Though difficult, you break out of the clouds in time to make final adjustments. This might be worth a voiceover. Beslan at night, T-storm, ceiling 150 m AGL, 15 m/s crosswind (max allowable).

EDIT: In hindsight, I probably should have just uploaded the last 2.5 minutes or so. Until then, there’s not much to see. So just skip ahead.



Although the manual doesn’t mention it, the MiG-29 manual notes that the rollout is about 20% longer with a 15 m/s crosswind component. That seems to be roughly the case with our Su-27 as well.
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