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Defeating an AIM-54C


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I don't understand the question, so I'll give an answer that I hope explains a couple of things:

 

Missiles don't use Link-4,16, or whatever. (There may be some VERY new versions of 120's that do, but I doubt it). The don't receive information from AWACS or SAMs or wingmen. Period.

 

The missile data-link comes strictly from the launching aircraft.

That launching aircraft may receive data from other sources (ie. all of this above stuff) and then pass that data onto the missile it is launching via M-Link.

 

Ah so it has more to do with the launching aircrafts data link capability than the missiles then.

Thanks

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  • 1 year later...

Sorry for posting in an old thread, but did I get it right that you cannot evade the AIM-54C missiles in DCS? My F18 hornet does not give me any warning signals and no matter how hard I try to evade or how much chaff I throw, it always hits me. In Tacview I can cleary see the insane speed and maneuverability of this missile.

Or am I doing something wrong? It gets frustrating to get killed by this missile every time even when I am not in range firing my own missiles.

 

 

Edit: Ok, now I see that you have to go extremely close to the ground and dodge the missile in an 90° angle while spamming chaffs. Still this is only possible, if I can spot that missile with my own eyes almost immediately after its launch, which is not always very easy. So the AIM-54 of the F14 is an extremely overpowered missile. I wonder why my hornet does not have such a strong weapon.


Edited by Tiramisu
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I evade them all the time ... just need to jump into a defensive posture form the moment you expect or see the launch. If an F-14 is flying at you, then so it an AIM-54C most likely.

 

 

F-18's were never designed to carry the AIM-54 - the F-14 was the only operational aircraft to do so.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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However, your situational awareness needs to be very high to spot those devilish missiles. Usually I can only see them, when I have already spotted the enemy. It is a mistery to me why my hornet can automatically detect SAM-missiles, but no air-to-air 54 missiles. :(

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You don't need to spot them. Knowing there's an F-14 in the vicinity is enough, knowing his distance from you is even better.

 

The missiles are launched in TWS so you won't get any warning until the missile is close.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Unless it is not a scripted mission without random enemies, I do not know how to check whether I have F-14 enemies especially from such a long range like 10 or 15 nm. My radar just tells me whether it is an enemy airplane or not.

At least I can use this simple method: Immediately evade, when you are seeing that a missile is launched from more than 10 nm away, because that is the range of those nasty missiles. The AI does not seem to launch them on closer range.

However, my radar and my own eyes sometimes do not even notice if there are any bogies in bound, especiall when they are comming from the side or even from the back.

 

The missiles are launched in TWS so you won't get any warning until the missile is close.

 

Unfortunately I do not get any visual or sound warnings even when the missile is close. That is kind of strange, isn't it?


Edited by Tiramisu
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I know what you are saying, because I have already tried that training mission for evading SAMs. In that mission I often got informations about the types of the SAM-sites and missiles were indicated by a line next to their symbol on the circular RWR-screen, which is a great help. However, some AA-missiles like the 54 are not detected by my RWR at any time.

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As GG says, if there is an F-14 radar on your RWR, notch/defend against the F-14. By doing so, you naturally defend against the AIM-54C.

 

 

AA missiles of the "active seeking" variety will only be detected once their radar spots you. Usually, in an Western aircraft, you get an "M" warning on the RWR

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Oh, so you are saying that in my case I did not get any warnings, because the F14 itself did not radar-lock me. I thought that I would already get a warning when a Fox 3 missile like the AIM-54 has locked me up, but maybe that was a wrong assumption.

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Yeah, the F-14 is not radar locking you. The missile was launched in TWS mode, not STT. So your still just being casually scanned, as this missile has it's own active radar which it will not turn on until it has been guided by the F-14 to near you. You will still just see the "14" on RWR, even though a missile has been launched. When the missile reaches beyond mid-range or so, it will turn on it's OWN Active Radar. This is when it will try to lock you up, and you will see the M appear on your RWR, and the lock warning go off.

Try to beam it, and chaff, chaff, chaff.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, I'm trying to remember this from my Falcon days.

 

 

From Wikipedia:

 

 

The AIM-54/AWG-9 combination had multiple track capability (up to 24 targets) and launch (up to six Phoenixes can be launched nearly simultaneously); the large 1,000 lb (500 kg) missile is equipped with a conventional warhead.

On the F-14, four missiles can be carried under the fuselage tunnel attached to special aerodynamic pallets, plus two under glove stations. A full load of six Phoenix missiles and the unique launch rails weighs in at over 8,000 lb (3,600 kg), about twice the weight of Sparrows, so it was more common to carry a mixed load of four Phoenix, two Sparrow, and two Sidewinder missiles.

Most other US aircraft relied on the smaller, semi-active medium-range AIM-7 Sparrow. Semi-active guidance meant the aircraft no longer had a search capability while supporting the launched Sparrow, reducing situational awareness.

The Tomcat's radar could track up to 24 targets in track-while-scan mode, with the AWG-9 selecting up to six potential targets for the missiles. The pilot or radar intercept officer (RIO) could then launch the Phoenix missiles once parameters were met. The large tactical information display (TID) in the RIO's cockpit gave information to the aircrew (the pilot had the ability to monitor the RIO's display) and the radar could continually search and track multiple targets after Phoenix missiles were launched, thereby maintaining situational awareness of the battlespace.

The Link 4 datalink allowed US Navy Tomcats to share information with the E-2C Hawkeye AEW aircraft. During Desert Shield in 1990, the Link 4A was introduced; this allowed the Tomcats to have a fighter-to-fighter datalink capability, further enhancing overall situational awareness. The F-14D entered service with the JTIDS that brought the even better Link 16 datalink "picture" to the cockpit.

Active guidance

 

220px-F-14A_VF-1_launching_AIM-54_Phoenix.JPEG

AIM-54 Phoenix seconds after launch (1991)

 

 

The Phoenix has several guidance modes and achieves its longest range by using mid-course updates from the F-14A/B AWG-9 radar (APG-71 radar in the F-14D) as it climbs to cruise between 80,000 ft (24,000 m) and 100,000 ft (30,000 m) at close to Mach 5. The Phoenix uses this high altitude to gain gravitational potential energy, which is later converted into kinetic energy as the missile dives at high velocity towards its target. At around 11 miles (18 km) from the target, the missile activates its own radar to provide terminal guidance.[6] Minimum engagement range for the Phoenix is around 2 nmi (3.7 km) and active homing would initiate upon launch.[6]


Edited by 3WA
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