Quora article: Is the MIG-29 a better plane than the F-16? - Page 6 - ED Forums
 


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Old 01-27-2016, 08:03 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
Why are you comparing an aircraft which is still being tested and isn't planned to be released in a few years to an aircraft that was tested and fielded in the LATE 70's!?
Because the article compares the very first MiG-29 version from 1983 to a further developed version of the F-16 from the early 90'ies?

The first MiG-29(9.12) entered service in 1983 - for this the most contemporary variant of the F-16 would be something like a Block 15 from ~ 1982.
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Old 01-27-2016, 08:35 PM   #52
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Quote:

This isn't about comparing "similar" capabilities, this is about match-ups that happened, could have happened, and were thought to have been likely.

For sure - correct me if I am wrong but East Germany were not operational with those MiGs until around April 1988 according to Yefim.

Block 40 was going to squads in 1989 and combat deployed in 1990 (the Last year of East Germany). AIM-120A was IOC in 1991 so afraid can only speculate whether the GDR would have been upgraded by then.
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Old 01-27-2016, 09:16 PM   #53
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That site is for people to ask questions, and random people can answer them. If you click on the question, 6 answers have been given, so its not really an article, its just one answer. Many times the answers are filled with humor, or tongue in cheek responses. The site is kinda cool, I dont know how valid a lot of the sources are, but anyways,.. just wanted to point that out.

Personally I enjoy reading responses by this fellow: https://www.quora.com/profile/Tim-Hibbetts

Anyways, Carry on, I enjoy the irony of this thread being a discussion of the validity of that thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyforDCS View Post
I'm not sure I understand the point of this article. Yes the Mig29A is inferior to the F16C in pretty much every respect. So what? Why didn't he compare the Yak-1 to the F22 while he was at it?? What's the point of comparing an early 80's fighter to an early 90's fighter? Most people don't know the difference, and the author himself has stated that there isn't much of one between the different air-frames which is being disingenuous at best. He then proceeds to trash talk the latest variant of the Mig29 by saying yeah how many were sold to other markets? Say what? Why is that remark even included in the text, if not to make light of Russian technology?

Don't get me wrong the F16C armed with 90's era AIM120Cs does and should eat a Mig29A for breakfast in most situations, but the author's intent is clearly not to illustrate the differences between these two aircraft (which should be apparent to anyone even remotely familiar with these two air-frames) but to trash talk an entire line of aircraft. The author clearly wishes to convey his opinion that the entirety of the Mig29 line is useless and completely inferior to their western counterparts, as such this piece is clear propaganda. You can't infer any of that by having 500 or 5,000,000 hours in a Mig29A....
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Old 01-27-2016, 09:28 PM   #54
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This is fun debating the article SiThSpAwn


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Old 01-27-2016, 11:07 PM   #55
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I fail to see why you guys are comparing individual planes. That just doesn't happen outside of DCS.

Did you saw any war with individual planes meeting at point X and dueling like medieval tournament ?

This thread and the whole article down there is just ridiculous. One country has waged war for most of his small existence, and therefore develloped a modern and efficient air force. Any comparison lower to theater level is useless.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:18 PM   #56
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^Exactly, its a system of systems vs a system of systems!
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:28 PM   #57
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So no more Dora vs Mustang, Kurfurst vs Mustang, Mig-15 vs Sabre, F-15 vs Su-27, Su-25 vs A-10 discussion?

Only theater and beyond...

Forum moderators are going to be vey happy.

The Forum traffic will be reduced 95% to only a 5% threats and posts.

I´m still find very interesting debating and comparing similar airplanes like Mig 29A vs F-16A, F-4E vs Mig-23K, F-15A vs Su-27S, Mig-21 vs F-5.

But if the only discussion is a total war theater between West and East there is only one valid point.

NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

End of the discussion.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:32 PM   #58
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Hey, I think both the MiG-29 and F-16 can carry those!
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:44 PM   #59
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There are a lot of theater air wars to discuss as a whole and global arms conflicts like the two Gulf Wars, Kosovo, Iran-Irak war, Vietnam, etc. In this air war conflicts it´s possible to discuss the air power in that way. Like a global system.

But there are a lot of small showdowns between aircrafts along history and thats why i find so interesting to compare and discuss about planes with similar specs.

The Tomcat interceptions on Lybia agains Su´s and Mig´s, the frontier clashes between Israel and the Arab neighbours like Syria and Egypt ( not the open wars, the limited interceptions between Mirage and Mig-21 for example ), the limited interceptions between Pakistan Starfighters and Indian Fishbeds, etc.

There are plenty of situations where a pair of fighters could face another pair of enemy fighters out there, without a global conflict. Why we can´t discuss about that, and for me the closest the aircrafts are in perfomance and specs, the more interesting the discussion could be.

Its not so hard to understand.

Comparing a F-22 Raptor in combat against a L-39 Albatros... well not very appasionated. But a F-4E Phantom vs Mig-23K or a F-15A vs Su-27S? This is another thing.

And why not, a first production Mig-29A from 1982 vs a F-16A Falcon from the same year. Each one with pros and cons but fighting in a very similar machine. Much more interesting that a Mig-29A vs A F-16C block 40 with Amraams.
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Last edited by Esac_mirmidon; 01-27-2016 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:09 AM   #60
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I like the second article posted, the one on foxtrot alpha. Much more indepth, and he says a couple of times in there that the big difference is in the Vipers ability to maintain energy (paraphrasing), and we all know in a BFM, energy is king.
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