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Old 08-20-2019, 01:31 AM   #1
AT_Youmu
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Default ICLS on LHA?

Several months ago I noticed the LHA has the "ACTIVE ICLS" command. But it didn't work. Now I tried again and found its still not functional. Am I missing someting?


So I want to ask if Razbam have any plan about it, or....there are some other ways to land on LHA during the night and bad weather?
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Old 08-20-2019, 03:37 AM   #2
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Oh the ICLS works. It is just not compatible with the Harrier right now.

If you want to land at night or poor (ish) weather, fly the Tacan on BRC down to 1,200 feet, maintain until like 3 miles. You should have the ball in sight, then land

Non precision instrument approach, just flew one tonight in the pitch black, good fun.

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Old 08-20-2019, 06:46 AM   #3
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Tarawa has ICLS.
Harrier is modeled only with ILS.

ICLS is not compatibel with ILS.
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Old 08-20-2019, 01:06 PM   #4
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The Harrier does AWLS, which is not ILS.

IIRC the ILS HW can be easily upgraded to include AWLS support, because they are very similar equipment, so ED simply said, "if an airfield supports ILS, it now also supports AWLS".
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Orso View Post
The Harrier does AWLS, which is not ILS.

IIRC the ILS HW can be easily upgraded to include AWLS support, because they are very similar equipment, so ED simply said, "if an airfield supports ILS, it now also supports AWLS".

This is incorrect. The reason "our" Harrier uses ILS and not proper AWLS/ICLS is because ED hadn't implemented it when AWLS was added to the Harrier. Hopefully Razbam will correct this at some time in the future. The current solution is simply a workaround.

And technically, ILS and AWLS/ICLS are not similar at all (other than the fact that both are radio landing aids). AWLS is a scanning beam system operating at ~15GHz (similar to MLS, but in a different frequency bad), while ILS is operates at 108.1-111.95 (LOC) / 329.15-335 MHz (GP), generating a radiation pattern where the DDM (difference in depth of modulation of a 90Hz and 150Hz tone) varies depending on the distance from the course line.

Last edited by drPhibes; 08-20-2019 at 10:01 PM. Reason: typo...
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Orso View Post
IIRC the ILS HW can be easily upgraded to include AWLS support, because they are very similar equipment
They (ILS and ICLS/AWLS) are not similar in any respect.

ILS uses radio beams with differing frequencies and the mix of overlap qives the plane position with respect to the localizer center line, etc.

ICLS/AWLS is a scanning radar beam with coded position information i.e. the coded information is received/decoded by a AN/ARA-63 receiver which is the same unit as found in the Hornet and Tomcat.

From Razbam's script naming scheme "AN_ARN128_config.lua", it seem's Razbam *might* be using the AN/ARN-128 to justify allowing the Harrier use ILS but it is a fiction, as AFAIK the unit was never fitted to the AV-8B


Quote:
... so ED simply said, "if an airfield supports ILS, it now also supports AWLS".
Source ?

Only Razbam's AV-8B can land using ILS (at the cost of not being able to land on the Tarawa, etc.).

AV-8B's ILS frequencies are hard coded in

"DCS World\Mods\aircraft\AV8BNA\Cockpit\Scripts\RadioNav\AN_ARN128_config.lua"

which is only installed with and used by Razbam's AV-8B.

Neither the Hornet or Tomcat can land using ILS and if ED/Heatblur was to allow it it would be unrealistic.

Last edited by Ramsay; 08-20-2019 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:06 PM   #7
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Wow, I guess my memory on the subject is proven to be totally unreliable.

Thanks for the answers.

Sooo do I understand correctly that the Hornet and Tomcat both only use ICLS, which is similar to the Harrier's AWLS -- or the other way around -- and that ICLS is currently not implemented at all in DCS? .. although the carriers should eventually have it functioning, at which time maybe the Harrier will have a better functioning AWLS?

I also believe I read in the forum that ICLS is not actually implemented on any airfields at all, so it's really just used on carriers?
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:00 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Captain Orso View Post
Sooo do I understand correctly that the Hornet and Tomcat both only use ICLS, which is similar to the Harrier's AWLS -- or the other way around
Large carriers like the Stennis use the SPN-41 radar for ICLS (the system dates from 1969), the Navy decided to use the same system on LHA/LHD class ships.

Quote:
-- and that ICLS is currently not implemented at all in DCS?
ICLS was added to the DCS Stennis when the Hornet was released into early access.

Quote:
.. although the carriers should eventually have it functioning, at which time maybe the Harrier will have a better functioning AWLS?
The Stennis has it now, the Tarawa can have ICLS but the ICLS localizer definition in it's .lua is set with a 9° offset (as if it had a slanted runway like the Stennis). The Hornet/Tomcat can fly an approach (as done IRL test flights) but obviously can't land.

Razbam's AWLS is not compatible with DCS's ICLS.

The introduction of interactive ILS kneeboard pages for Razbam's AWLS, suggests that Razbam are not planning to change their implementation (I'd love to be wrong on that).

Quote:
I also believe I read in the forum that ICLS is not actually implemented on any airfields at all, so it's really just used on carriers?
Correct for DCS, though there is a mod.

IRL some Navy bases have compatible radars for Pilot/ATC training, etc.

There is a picture of the ICLS/AWLS capable AN/TPN-22 radar in use at an airbase in Iraq, 2005.

There's also a light weight portable unit the Marines use, the AN/TPN-30B that's TACAN and ICLS/AWLS capable.

Hornet Field Carrier Landing Practice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-lw...youtu.be&t=103

Last edited by Ramsay; 09-16-2019 at 09:29 AM. Reason: Spelling lol, Rambam --> Razbam
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:19 AM   #9
AT_Youmu
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So, can I conclude that the AV8B in DCS should have ICLS and can use it to land on LHA, but it shouldn't have ILS to land on the airfield. Am I right?
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:02 AM   #10
Ramsay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AT_Youmu View Post
So, can I conclude that the AV8B in DCS should have ICLS and can use it to land on LHA, but it shouldn't have ILS to land on the airfield. Am I right?
Correct.

However, if you want to use AWLS to land at an airbase in DCS, you can brief something like

"US Marines at Kobuleti have setup AWLS for RWY 07 using a AN/TPN-30B operating on TACAN 67X/Channel 1"

and remain somewhat realistic.

Last edited by Ramsay; 09-16-2019 at 09:28 AM. Reason: Describe a role play option for using AWLS at Kobuleti or similar.
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