Carrier comms - Mini Updates

ED could offer a premium service of some sort. Example: For $10/month get 10% off all purchases, increasing by 5% per year of membership up to say a max of 25%, and access to Open Beta.

Would generate steady income to pay the monthly bills, and may even allow ED to hire more staff; increasing production times, and repairs. Those of us hardcore enough to pay for the equipment we have to run the game should be able to spare $10 a month.

So, for those that decide not to purchase the new carrier module, what should happen if they want to use a MP server that has it?

I think treating it the same way as any module is the answer. I fly the F/A-18C and F-14. My friend flies the F-14 and M2000C yet were not forced to only fly the 14, but instead we can fly any aircraft we own together. Do the same thing with that Carrier.

The logical answer to me would be to lock the slots at the role select screen. Just like when my friend and I fly. I see his M2000 but I can not select it, and he sees my 18. The code is already there to lock the slots, so that seems like the logical answer to this issue, and the carrier select slot can't be that much different than an aircraft select slot. Just because it has more select-able roles doesn't change anything too because we already have Multicrew aircraft and those second slots are locked to people who don't own the aircraft.

So limit the LSO, Boss, and other slots to people who own it. Just like every other module. Then make the module visible to everyone on the map, just like with other modules, but Still allow people to land on the carrier. While they are locked out of the stuff that makes it special, they should still be able to land on it and get basic features such as the auto LSO and Deck Crew walking about. I know it takes time and money to make those basic features, but to keep multiplayer from fracturing more, it could be worth biting the bullet and making those a core upgrade; Replacing / upgrading the Stennis. Then you just have to market the cool features such as controlling the boat itself. Which to be fair was the main selling point for me.

Right now, I am in two closed multiplayer communities for DCS, one dedicated with about 60 or 70ish DCS users. The other one as a side community attached to a larger gaming community, a few hundred people in total from the full community, and about 25 or 30 who play DCS on the side. For the smaller community I run their private server. It is small but active, we fly a mix of everything. I have people who only fly Russian stuff, others who stick to navy, and some who only fly flaming cliffs. We even try to introduce people to DCS via the SU-25T. So in other words it is a new player friendly private server.

The Navy pilots along with myself, about 8 of us, were excited for this new carrier, and planned on getting it, some like myself on day one, but since this news has come out it has been nothing but negative opinions on it. I personally since hearing this news will not be buying it, but also will not even host it on our server. It cuts out too many people and splits our already small group while making it harder to introduce new people to DCS.

Even in the larger community which is a lot more hard core focused than the smaller one. The new carrier is being received mixed reactions. How does it affect current members? What about the air force pilots? How about members who can't afford it, and other questions. So even in this much more dedicated community the carrier is an iffy issue.

I know they have to make money from it, and should not give out the full carrier for free, but if it splits part of the community. Then its bad for business all around. They might get more sales by making it compatible for Multiplayer than not. I personally was looking at buying at least one copy if not two depending on how it works for server hosts, and I expected to shell out at least 40 USD each copy for it or more, but the selling factor of being able to use it while my friends are flying on the same server not being an option has killed my excitement for the carrier, and I know I am not the only one, but I have hope that the right choice will be made.

Maybe just make it non-pay if there is no other way to go about it. ED could do other things to make money like cosmetic micro-transactions (generally accepted in the gaming community) for aircraft skins, etc.

Also I like this idea. Could be a good way to generate money. Maybe if possible expand it to pilot uniforms and helmets too, or perhaps aircraft skins for notable real life pilots of those aircraft. Example Gypsy 207 and Gypsy 202. The two Tomcats who got A2A kills against Libya.

ED could offer a premium service of some sort. Example: For $10/month get 10% off all purchases

I'm all for a subscription model but it'd have to be a much better value proposition than that!

At the moment I am more than ever willing to pay or donate to Alerax for his fantastic LSO script, wich is not that much worse than what I have seen so far regarding the new comms by ED.

It works, is not less immersive and the best about it: It does not split the community.

So a very clever modder achieved a comparable goal without the possibility of diving deep into the DCS code. And it is not possible for the guys at ED to create similar results with full access to the source code?

I can imagine it is more about a strategic decision and not primarily a technical one. We will see if it pays out at the end...

That's looking too good to be true! Instant purchase for me. And please make a 10-15 mission F/A-18 campaign on the PG map for this too.

Instant purchase for me too. But will this new comm Modul also available for the Tarawa in the future or only for the Nimitz class?

We are aware of the issues it can cause, but right now there are technical hurdles that we can't get around. The two comms types cant co-exist currently, as well as issues with how the animated crew and such would be handled for non-owners.

Then wait with the release until they can. Simple as that if you are decided to go on the path of payable DLC.

You already managed to shoot yourself in the foot with WW2 asset pack dividing WW2 DCS MP community, so please do not try to repeat this.

When it comes to such kind of DLC, it is never about that it is not free, but that MP experience should be as transparent as possible or else force everyone to upgrade, as such fragmentation of the community is not in your and our best interest.

ED Maintain the Briefing room, hangar and carrier control? what kind of carrier control can expected, a CIC room and a Bridge or a F-10 style map?. We can "walk" from the aircrafts to the briefing room or has "static". What kind of functionality can expected to the "briefing room".

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151478&page=18

Although we released a greatly improved and free Nimitz-class aircraft carrier at the time of the Hornet release, we are also working on a separate Nimitz-class aircraft carrier module. This product will have an incredible level of detail and include such features as a detailed and operable LSO and Air Boss stations, detailed modeling of the hangar, animated deck crew, briefing room, and control of the carrier.

if it understands u that is

All voice recognition will have the same issue. Just spend a lot more time training windows if your diction is non-standard. It’ll pick up the nuances over time.

Yet at no point was it said that the carrier com upgrade for atc was going to be 'exclusive' to the new carrier either wags. Things like functioning case 1,2 and 3 operations should be at least part of the base game, heck the communityhas programmed these functions already butt cant you're them into the proper atc system because there is no api to do so beyond the f10 other.

What had people up in arms here is not that you are selling the nimitz as a new module but the fact you are selling what is a core and currently very broken part if the sim by every post made as a module only fix.

In more then one post and even vid you, yourself have commented oh that will be fixed or avaliable with the upcoming atc rework. That lead most of, if not all to believe that case 1,2,3 operations and atc functions would be part of the core game and that the new deck crew etc would be part of the new carrier. This is the reason people are upset, not that the carriers payware but that something which should be part of the core game.

Suddenly its hey you want an ai lso... pay up x. When that should be part of the base carrier functions that come with the game itself. You're basically going to force those of us who design missions or run mp servers to have to go brother ha but it or don't join or the like. Don't you see what that is going to do to a lot of groups etc? It's 1.5/2.0 all over again only this time it's not tech updates that eveyone will eventually get but a module and one that lets face it you know full well the F18 and F14 pilots want/need the lso talk down for even on the current stennis.

Please split the atc upgrade out you can leave the rest but the atc upgrades need to be a core sim upgrade avalible to the existing Nimitz and Stennis and presumably forrestal classes.

At no point has it ever been said that the Nimitz-

class aircraft module would be free.

 

We aren't just selling new comms, we are selling a fully functional carrier experience, from new comms, an incredibly detailed and animated carrier, animated deck crew, crash barriers, control of the carrier, and the ability to man positions such as LSO or the air boss station. The amount of time, effort, and capital going into this is massive, and it will be the most immersive and complete carrier environment available for a game or even a professional training tool. I would expect that someone could enjoy just being in control of the carrier, launching AI and/or Players on missions, in defense or offence... this is not just a few new sound files.

 

Of course, on the technical side, there will be so many network inconsistencies between module owners and non-owners of the carrier that it would cause havoc and look terrible (particuarly deck crew and the new comms), as such making it available to non-owners in MP makes no sense. Other carriers will be available to non-owners still, and many will be happy with the new, free carrier that was added just last year along side the Hornet. This module iis for those that want to take carrier life to the next level.

 

Because the core software of DCS World is free, we will continue to make enhanced module content available for purchase.

 

Thanks

 

Of course, on the technical side, there will be so many network inconsistencies between module owners and non-owners of the carrier that it would cause havoc and look terrible (particuarly deck crew and the new comms), as such making it available to non-owners in MP makes no sense. Other carriers will be available to non-owners still, and many will be happy with the new, free carrier that was added just last year along side the Hornet. This module iis for those that want to take carrier life to the next level.

 

 

Thanks

This line of thinking renders this Module all but useless for public multiplayer servers. I LOVE this product, Ive been looking forward to it since it was teased with the hornet. There is simply no way that this module can enter mainstream use online with this stipulation, it will divide the multiplayer base even farther, as there is no reasonable way for us, as server admins, to expect ALL of the public that fly regularly on our server to purchase this module to be able to enter our server.

No one is expecting it for free, but i feel that its reasonable to expect compatibility between people who own, and do not own the assets. Surely you can program this in such a way that only the basic carrier functions are enabled for people who do not own it so that it does not break compatibility.

At no point has it ever been said that the Nimitz-class aircraft module would be free.

 

We aren't just selling new comms, we are selling a fully functional carrier experience, from new comms, an incredibly detailed and animated carrier, animated deck crew, crash barriers, control of the carrier, and the ability to man positions such as LSO or the air boss station. The amount of time, effort, and capital going into this is massive, and it will be the most immersive and complete carrier environment available for a game or even a professional training tool. I would expect that someone could enjoy just being in control of the carrier, launching AI and/or Players on missions, in defense or offence... this is not just a few new sound files.

 

Of course, on the technical side, there will be so many network inconsistencies between module owners and non-owners of the carrier that it would cause havoc and look terrible (particuarly deck crew and the new comms), as such making it available to non-owners in MP makes no sense. Other carriers will be available to non-owners still, and many will be happy with the new, free carrier that was added just last year along side the Hornet. This module iis for those that want to take carrier life to the next level.

 

Because the core software of DCS World is free, we will continue to make enhanced module content available for purchase.

 

Thanks

Respectfully, that is really too simplistic. You're splitting the community once again. People will not be able to base their decision on if they want this or not, they will have to base this on if they can even use this in MP or not. If a server decides to activate this, in squadrons and organised groups or on public servers, they will be forced to buy this, even if they don't own any navy aircraft at all. They have to buy this just to join the bloody server to play with their friends. Do you really think that is making anyone happy? The discussions they're having in squadrons right now? Do you think that's joyful for anyone?

I urge you to rethink this decision, splitting the community like this is damaging to this little flower of a niche community.

Alternatives:

A free-lite version, no audio files, no high res textures, make it ugly as ****, but at least people can join the server.

Adjust the price so not buying it is insanity, like if you made this sub-10 dollars. Unlikely, but it is an option...

Both are great options . Arma2 used to is by lite versions. They were very ugly but at least they were there

The current menu seems to be problematical for a number of your player base

I cant see the menu in a large 4 k Monitor and I know that some VR users struggle

Did you try "scale GUI" in 4k?

In VR people struggle to read text in general, as the VR headset are mostly limited by resolution vs. performance.

It just gets better, but the headsets isn't something ED can fix.

Well i’ll buy it anyway. I have this wish 5 years ago... I’ll hope ED comes with more populated airbases with groundcrew too in future. I’ll pay most for supporting ED to keep this exceptional product evolving like no other one on the market available too make it as close as it gets. :D

Respectfully, that is really too simplistic. You're splitting the community once again. People will not be able to base their decision on if they want this or not, they will have to base this on if they can even use this in MP or not. If a server decides to activate this, in squadrons and organised groups or on public servers, they will be forced to buy this, even if they don't own any navy aircraft at all. They have to buy this just to join the bloody server to play with their friends. Do you really think that is making anyone happy? The discussions they're having in squadrons right now? Do you think that's joyful for anyone?

 

I urge you to rethink this decision, splitting the community like this is damaging to this little flower of a niche community.

 

Alternatives:

 

A free-lite version, no audio files, no high res textures, make it ugly as ****, but at least people can join the server.

 

Adjust the price so not buying it is insanity, like if you made this sub-10 dollars. Unlikely, but it is an option...

The problem is these contents are an expensive venture, so ED needs to look into compensating the development work.

There is a free Carrier ATC script/mod available, as well as Moose started to integrate it as a class.

So, if you "only" want better ATC, it's already there. If you want this done professional, with a working in depth carrier environment, then we need to find a way to compensate EDs investment. So, one possible way to see this, is to consider DCS World as a trial and if you want to play it for real, you need to "buy" DCS World including Carrier ops...

ATC is available for the Navy right now, if you want a more robust and exciting carrier experience, then you get the module. In order to keep the core free, and updates to it going, you have to have paid content as well. If you don't buy the Carrier module, you can still land on the free core supplied carriers.

I guess I'm sticking with the incorrectly scaled Stennis then

The thing is, with community mods "required", certain aircraft "required" to join a squadron or goup it has already happened, long ago.

The problem is these contents are an expensive venture, so ED needs to look into compensating the development work.

There is a free Carrier ATC script/mod available, as well as Moose started to integrate it as a class.

So, if you "only" want better ATC, it's already there. If you want this done professional, with a working in depth carrier environment, then we need to find a way to compensate EDs investment. So, one possible way to see this, is to consider DCS World as a trial and if you want to play it for real, you need to "buy" DCS World including Carrier ops...

I have yet to see a community requiring a certain mod or aircraft. But even if I take your point, if you want to join a community that is all about the F-14 and they require you to own the F-14, that makes sense. But most players won't be surprised that they have to own an F-14 to join an F-14 squadron.

But if you join a squadron that isn't that specialised, and most groups are very open and ask what you have instead of telling you what you get, you would be very surprised if you only owned the Mirage and then had to buy a carrier module just to play with them.

No, your argument is flawed. You're forcing groups to either not get this module to begin with, as a group, or force their players to buy a module they may not even have any use for, not even passively, as a group.

ED needs to look at different solutions, this doesn't work. It will cause huge strife in the community. And as much as I sympathize with EDs investments, they need to make the investments reasonable for each player. Nobody here is grumbling that every plane costs vast premiums. But there is value we get in return. This carrier module, though, for some players will only translate to "yes, you still can join this server".

I have pointed out alternatives, I think they would be reasonable. These problems certainly can't be handwaved away with EDs investments. The community was split long enough with the 1.5x debacle. Why brute forcing a repeat of that experience?

ED has "alternatives", you can fly a WW2 with DCS but you dont have the WW2 units without have the WW2 assets pack. That is the same, you can continue fly with the "old" carriers but you like a more immersive can need the carrier module.

Other point can be get a "correct scaled" 3D model, but without the module functionality.

I have yet to see a community requiring a certain mod or aircraft. But even if I take your point, if you want to join a community that is all about the F-14 and they require you to own the F-14, that makes sense. But most players won't be surprised that they have to own an F-14 to join an F-14 squadron.

 

 

 

But if you join a squadron that isn't that specialised, and most groups are very open and ask what you have instead of telling you what you get, you would be very surprised if you only owned the Mirage and then had to buy a carrier module just to play with them.

 

 

 

No, your argument is flawed. You're forcing groups to either not get this module to begin with, as a group, or force their players to buy a module they may not even have any use for, not even passively, as a group.

 

 

 

ED needs to look at different solutions, this doesn't work. It will cause huge strife in the community. And as much as I sympathize with EDs investments, they need to make the investments reasonable for each player. Nobody here is grumbling that every plane costs vast premiums. But there is value we get in return. This carrier module, though, for some players will only translate to "yes, you still can join this server".

 

 

 

I have pointed out alternatives, I think they would be reasonable. These problems certainly can't be handwaved away with EDs investments. The community was split long enough with the 1.5x debacle. Why brute forcing a repeat of that experience?

With the vJaBoG 66 we are required to have the A-10C or the UH-1H, the NTTR Nevada map, the 476th Range targets mod installed, plus a squadron specific mod installed. Other virtual squadrons have similar "requirements"...

Some servers require community mods, some only that you have bought the according map. Some only host stock vanilla Caucasus missions...

Basically all Squadrons require you to have a certain airplane. At least I don't know any Su-25T squadrons.

With the vJaBoG 66 we are required to have the A-10C or the UH-1H, the NTTR Nevada map, the 476th Range targets mod installed, plus a squadron specific mod installed. Other virtual squadrons have similar "requirements"...

Some servers require community mods, some only that you have bought the according map. Some only host stock vanilla Caucasus missions...

Ok, just to illustrate the point... Is your squadron forcing you to buy the WW2 asset pack? I know, you don't have any use for it. But just to have it. That would be the proper analogy. People that don't own navy planes would just buy this module to join the server. That's it. They have nothing from it other than being able to join. That squadrons specialise in some aircrafts changes nothing about it, because you get a direct return value for buying the module when you buy the A-10 or NTTR. If you choose to utilise it is up to you. But to someone in a squadron only owning a Mirage, this carrier system wouldn't be of any value other than joining the server if the squadron decides to support this.

This will be my last post on the topic, if I can't get through by now, I'll never get the message across.

Ok, just to illustrate the point... Is your squadron forcing you to buy the WW2 asset pack? I know, you don't have any use for it. But just to have it. That would be the proper analogy. People that don't own navy planes would just buy this module to join the server. That's it. They have nothing from it other than being able to join. That squadrons specialise in some aircrafts changes nothing about it, because you get a direct return value for buying the module when you buy the A-10 or NTTR. If you choose to utilise it is up to you. But to someone in a squadron only owning a Mirage, this carrier system wouldn't be of any value other than joining the server if the squadron decides to support this.

 

This will be my last post on the topic, if I can't get through by now, I'll never get the message across.

For me personally, this is a preferable solution, to "DCS Season pass" or monthly fees, which are far more annoying and hiding the whole experience of DCS behind a "pay wall".

A other option could be to increase module prices, but it is unlikely people accept a 20% increase in prices to finance other players ATC or Carrier experience... at least I find that not very attractive.

I have no problem of paying for new carrier/deck crew/new comms.

But people who don't own this module cannot join the server which enables it, is just a deal breaker.

I have no problem of paying for new carrier/deck crew/new comms.

But people who don't own this module cannot join the server which enables it, is just a deal breaker.

Yep, that's the problem most people have with this. Hell, I'd be willing to pay double the price they are planning if it meant they would get rid of this requirement to have the module to play on the server.

Free carrier module for F/A 18 early access user ?

Due to the current polemics on the paid carrier module and as it had been done for the nttr / a10c, could it be a good idea to offer this module to those who buy the F18 during EA period ?

it's just a proposal :music_whistling: