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Help with Vertical Landing


tmansteve

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This is driving me mad big time. Can do anything else but this is getting silly. I approach the runway OK, all is fine and then when I'm over the runway and descending, the plane starts to sway quite a bit and it is very difficult to correct. Obviously most attempts end in failure.

 

 

Looked at loads of videos and can't see what I'm doing wrong.

 

 

 

Any help would be great. I need to get this licked before I join a group and don't want to look stupid.

 

 

 

 

Could my joystick be set too sensitive? I'm using a Thrustmaster Hotas X

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Try setting some curves and slight dead zones on your controls.

 

 

 

I normally try to land with less that 3000lbs of fuel, I break into the circuit, pop the air-brake, throttle back to idle, drop gear, flaps to vtol, water on, then I nozzle to 89/90 and roll in to the runway, as you slow and descend add power slowly (or you'll float). When the speed gets down to 50 - 20 knots try and point into wind using the vane on the nose. Once you're established at a good height (<100 feet) and your nose/wings are level, you can you can start to get the nozzles towards 82-83 degrees. Don't add too much rudder without correcting with stick inputs or you'll end up kinda squirrely. Small inputs, small corrections and lots and lots of practice :thumbup:.

 

 

If you'd like I can demo this online and talk you throught it. PM me if you'd like. no pressure ;)


Edited by Harry.R
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Could my joystick be set too sensitive? I'm using a Thrustmaster Hotas X

 

Probably this, yes. Sounds like pilot induced oscillation. Which happens when you over correct an issue, which leads to the same issue in the opposite direction, then you do it again and again and it's bad.

 

I'd suggest a curve of some sort to allow for finer control of the aircraft. I use it for all mine and it works nice.

 

7RGSATL.jpg

 

Just be patient and let your corrections work. Trim the aircraft constantly as you show down into your hover so it is as stable as can be without correct. That will help you by keeping your stick close to center so you induce less error into the controls as well. Make sure you are light enough. And finally, try just an empty jet, 30% fuel, and take off in a hover and hold it. Practice just keeping altitude first. Then trying to stay over a line perpendicular to the aircraft and altitude. Then a true hover. Baby steps.

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Many thanks guys. Whenever I do a Vertical landing, I jetteson fuel to lighten the plane. I will try everything. Just gotta get this landing right. All other actions are no problem. I will look at the curves settings as well.

 

 

Cheers

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Many thanks guys. Whenever I do a Vertical landing, I jetteson fuel to lighten the plane. I will try everything. Just gotta get this landing right. All other actions are no problem. I will look at the curves settings as well.

 

 

Cheers

 

Trim and do your decelerating transition correctly and you will be fine. When you are in or near the hover it can take a very large stick movement to impart a small movement on the aircraft because you are using the RCS.

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I approach the runway OK, all is fine and then when I'm over the runway and descending, the plane starts to sway quite a bit and it is very difficult to correct. Obviously most attempts end in failure.

Without a track it's hard to guess what's wrong but it sounds like PIO (pilot induced oscillations).

 

To hold a steady hover - use small, relaxed movements. You'll need to anticipate the Harrier's movement and allow for lag/inertia. You should expect the Harrier to move/sway a little (like a row boat rocking due to gentle waves), it'll always need small adjustments but not so much as to over compensate or cause PIO's (pilot induced oscillations).

 

Try to use peripheral vision, the horizon and mid distance when holding a hover/making adjustments, as using close foreground references can make things difficult or induce PIO.

 

Below 60 kts the HUD FPM change's to a VVI and on the horizon line = no sink rate, while a little below = slow descent, a little above = ascending. It's a better indication than the coarse +/- 50 FPM on the HUD.

 

Once you can maintain a steady hover altitude using the throttle, you can switch your focus to lateral translation using the stick.

 

Could my joystick be set too sensitive? I'm using a Thrustmaster Hotas X

While the 'Hotas X' isn't the best stick, it's what my son uses and he seems to do ok, IIRC he uses curvature 15 for pitch and roll, as per Chuck's AV-8B Harrier Guide.

 

Here's

 

• I come in with STOL Flaps and 60° Nozzles. Keeping the Witch's Hat and FPM together = the correct approx 8° AOA.

 

• At DME 0.8 nm, I set Hover Stop (82° Nozzles) and manage forward speed by pitching the Witch's Hat up and down +/- 3°.

 

• When GS drops below 60kts, the FPM switch's to indicating Vertical Velocity.

 

A practice test: is a box pattern hover with a clean AV-8B below max hover weight.

• Set VSTOL Flaps, 82° Nozzles, etc. then increase DRY thrust for a 50ft hover

• Translate Left and stop.

• Translate aft and stop.

• Translate Right and stop.

• Translate Forward and stop.

• Reduce thrust and touch back down where you started.


Edited by Ramsay

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Keeping the Witch's Hat and FPM together = the correct approx 8° AOA.

 

The manuals state that 8-10 degrees AOA is for formation detachment not landing itself. Manuals have it at 10-12 degrees AOA for all break turns(specifically 10), decelerating transitions, and approaches. Touchdown for slow landings and conventional landings is 12 degrees AOA.

 

Just pointing that out. Still a great post.


Edited by defeatist99
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I noticed that i have my curves set to 25 and so i will reduce to try 15. I think it has to be PIO as normal landing is a breeze. Thanks so much for all the input. I will get this licked very shortly.

 

 

Also, might bring my joystick back a bit to allow less fatigue on my arm. That might help with PIOs. I have the stiffness on the joystick set to full. Would it help to lessen or keep it tight?

 

 

The video was very good by the way


Edited by tmansteve
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I watch the velocity vector indicator and adjust it up and down using the "throttle only" during my approach and hover. Use nose up to slow down and nose down to speed up and keep throttle adjusted to keep the velocity vector indicator on the spot where you want to touch down. It works much like a F-18C carrier landing. In fact it was after practicing F-18 Carrier landings that it finally clicked for me how to land the AV88 correctly. Throttle for AOA. Since I mostly fly hueys I don't even notice having to keep the plane level. It just comes naturally. Using the throttle for AOA is backwards compared to a helo collective but I got used to it. One thing I can say is that when I had a T-Flight Hotas joystick I could never fly hueys with it well because it was too noisy for the sensitive helicopter control. The warthog stick was much smoother in my case. The warthog with an extension is even better.

 

 

 

slyfly

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I have been thinking of getting a new joystick for a while now. Might be time to look around.

Yeah, my son says he has similar problems when flying the Harrier, so I'm planning to upgrade to a Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS later in the year.


Edited by Ramsay
typo

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Update: Wow, adjusted the curves a bit. 10 Deadzone - 30 Curvature on Pitch and Roll. Rudder 25 Curvature.

 

 

Well, I managed to land it. Not the best but takeoff was a breeze. I could turn the plane around and when it went into PIO I managed to get out of that as well.

 

 

These settings are a great starting point for me, so I will be practicing carrier landing tomorrow.

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