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F-14 Air to Air Gunnery


bonesvf103

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Don't know if I'm in a slump or not, but I've been flying guns only dogfights and although I am largely victorious, it is what I'd call "winning ugly."

 

 

When I get in a good shooting position, I am trying to get the pipper on the target or actually a little bit ahead of him in order for him to fly through my rounds or just have the rounds hit him right on. My problem is that I find it very hard to keep the pipper in a stable position to take the shot. The more I pull or the more he pulls, I bleed off too much energy and the pipper starts to jump all over the place. If I relax back pressure and let him slide out in front of me then pull back in, then I have a hard time keeping the pipper on him and any more pull I start to get buffeting, which I correct with rudder, but then the pipper goes crazy again.

 

 

More often than not, I do actually shoot him down, but most of the time he runs out of gas and punches out or I hit him a few times and he doesn't go down and then he runs out of gas--hollow victories.

 

 

I can almost always get on his six and stay there, but what good is that if you can't close escrow on him?

 

 

So, what do you guys usually do when you get in a knife fight to keep a nice steady pipper?

 

 

v6,

boNes

"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot

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So, what do you guys usually do when you get in a knife fight to keep a nice steady pipper?

Nothing. I don't care about it being steady. I'm never in his 6: it's very difficult to realize and makes him such a small target. I almost always shoot him from above.

 

Not to bleed out your energy, just keep him above your front canopy frame. He just needs to spend one second in your HUD: the very last one.

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Do you actually STT lock when you go guns?

 

The locked diamond and pipper makes it so much easier than pure RTGS mode.

 

Keeping the pipper in a steady lead pursuit is something you just need to keep training.

DLC can help(though in dogfight really unreasonable to use ;) ), it also makes a difference if you have the plane trimmed out correctly especially if you go into dogfight and have fired missiles before etc.


Edited by Deadlift
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Yes, I have a lock that I get either through VSL, PAL, and so forth.

 

 

Since my gear is up, doesn't the DLC button control the maneuver flaps then?

 

 

v6,

boNes

"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot

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Nothing. I don't care about it being steady. I'm never in his 6: it's very difficult to realize and makes him such a small target. I almost always shoot him from above.

 

Not to bleed out your energy, just keep him above your front canopy frame. He just needs to spend one second in your HUD: the very last one.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I try to go for a "plan view" of him to shoot at, but then that means I have to put my nose on him and pulling to do that either I run out of energy, or I just can't hold him on the nose (my pipper is behind him trying to catch up.

 

 

v6,

boNes

"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot

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Yes, I try to go for a "plan view" of him to shoot at, but then that means I have to put my nose on him and pulling to do that either I run out of energy, or I just can't hold him on the nose (my pipper is behind him trying to catch up.

Because you don't wait to have built an energy advantage over him before pulling :)

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Maintaining a steady gunsight on a (non jinking) target is kinda like working behind the boat. It's good that you used the rudders to steady the nose, but you need to learn to do it preemptively and proactively. Anticipate the plane, both yours and his, but especially yours. You need to fly ahead of it, or you will just enter PIO's, just like behind the boat. So take your time, and keep using the rudders. If they are too sensitive for you, add some curvature to the axis! You'll get there in no time :D

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Since my gear is up, doesn't the DLC button control the maneuver flaps then?

DLC button will release CMs but the DLC wheel for sure control the maneuvering flaps.

 

 

As for targetting you seem to do everything ok. Just practice to get more skilled.


Edited by draconus

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If you're asking about shooting erratic jinking in multiplayer, I don't have experience but my guess is you need to think ahead of the bandit.

 

Regarding keeping pipper on an AI plane once on their 6, yeah you have to pull lead a bit and lose a tad bit of energy. The point of energy management is to trade it for a win. Never using your energy is like working your tail off to make boat loads of cash and then just staring at it as opposed to buying, investing, or donating to charity.

 

If you find that you're erratic, moving your nose all over, and cant hold steady, then Id say that's just a practice thing. Also, try different tunes for your x and y axes. I use deadzone 4, and curve 5 I believe. And I like it. Maybe you could try curve of 10 or 15

 

 

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Great tips and great analogies, guys, it really helps!

 

 

I've gotten to the point where I do shoot them down now, although not as frequently as I used to. I think being away for even a week causes alot of rust build up. What I think I found in drilling over and over (besides my neck hurting!) is that you really have to get a physical feel of the joystick and where you have it and how much pull you have on it.

 

 

So I've found that most of my kills come when I have a good amount of energy, and I pull just a LITTLE bit---usually to the 20 AOA point when the buffeting starts--then I stop pulling and hold the stick there. Eventually, the plane "catches up" pretty quickly and suddenly wants to put the nose on target. Instead of being to the extremes of the HUD or off of it, the pipper stays nice and stable at around the area of the TD diamond. In my head, I keep hearing the RIO in "Speed and Angels" telling the pilot, "Smooth it out" and so I smoothly pull to get the pipper in front of the bandit's track and squeeze.

 

 

At least a few rounds will hit him, if not more. Now my only problem then is that the diamond disappears to blink to show where my rounds fell, and I tend to get distracted away from the target because of it. So in my head, I have to remind myself to keep him tallied.

 

 

My MAIN problem at this point is target fixation...Sometimes after hitting him a few times, I realize that I am way too close--like .2 miles or less--and I overshoot and the next thing you know a heater is on my six. On one occasion, I got way too close, and realized and tried to break right to avoid him. He slid back past my 9:00 and sliced off my 20 deg extended left wing. We both went down...it was a loss on my part, but kind of funny too.

 

 

So, I've been trying to get in the habit of backing off when I see the break X....and to remember that I see a break X.

 

 

With this method I've been able to shoot many aircraft down, but on average it takes as much as 7-9 minutes to do so. On occasion I kill him in 3 minutes, so I'd like to get there more frequently or obviously less. I can't help get him off my lead's six if I can't shoot him down quickly.

 

 

v6,

boNes

"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot

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With this method I've been able to shoot many aircraft down, but on average it takes as much as 7-9 minutes to do so. On occasion I kill him in 3 minutes, so I'd like to get there more frequently or obviously less.

You need to work this in three phases: 1) practice. 2) practice again. 3) practice more. :joystick:

The same goes for aerial refueling, IFR, carrier landings, etc.

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If you're having trouble keeping the pipper on him based on angular rate changes, you've either got a closure problem or are trying to prosecute him from too close- both are BFM issues.

 

Everybody wants the pipper on the helmet look, but unfortunately the gun's CEP doesn't work like that. And it's important to note that training environment tape comes from a need for scoring- and is generally found after somebody gets abused into zero energy post-grovelling. But what the gun's CEP does do for you, however, is solve for shooting with a bit more range. And that's built into the radar ranging equation and the rate of fire- remember- this is air to air gunnery, not Silent Scope; the Vulcan's business is in "good enough".

 

If the bad guy passes through your HUD at proximity to your pipper with relative lead and alignment for at least one bullet TOF, squeeze and make him the next contestant on "Dancing With the Tracer Stars". But don't dare think about putting the pipper ahead of him until your finger is already on the first detent. Keep the operation smooth. The instant you feel everything is aligned, make your smooth transition to lead, put the pipper where it needs to be, and squeeze; let the radius and ROF do their job. Compensation needs to happen in the pull forward. If you're a dot width adjacent the fuselage, or a bit more ahead then you wanted, squeeze and hold for a full Mississippi- you'll take off his wing or get the cockpit splash you want anyway.

 

The fowl hunter or clay pidgeon shooter is firing with a shotgun, just like you. What matters for him is smoothness and position to the point of lead- not absolute exacting precision.

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My MAIN problem at this point is target fixation...Sometimes after hitting him a few times, I realize that I am way too close--like .2 miles or less--and I overshoot and the next thing you know a heater is on my six.

You're fighting guns against heaters?! Pretty risky...

The closer you are the easier to hit but also easier to overshoot. If you're already close at his six try to maintain lag persuit until confident (and energetic enough) to shoot.

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You're fighting guns against heaters?! Pretty risky...

The closer you are the easier to hit but also easier to overshoot. If you're already close at his six try to maintain lag persuit until confident (and energetic enough) to shoot.

 

 

Yeah, I train hard so if I'm going up guns only against a guy with heaters, and win, then I know I did well...!

 

 

Thanks for the tips

 

 

 

v6,

boNes

"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot

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With this method I've been able to shoot many aircraft down, but on average it takes as much as 7-9 minutes to do so. On occasion I kill him in 3 minutes, so I'd like to get there more frequently or obviously less. I can't help get him off my lead's six if I can't shoot him down quickly.

 

 

v6,

boNes

 

3 minutes from the merge, or 3 minutes from you saddling on his six?

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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3 minutes from the start of the instant action dogfight mission (so with bandit about 7 miles out on the nose)

 

 

v6,

boNes

"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot

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Thanks, I think I'm getting the hang of it. I've been able to shoot them down within 1:30-2:00 of mission start.

 

 

v6,

boNes

"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot

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