Essay, PART 1: Why taildraggers are tricky and how to overcome it! - Page 3 - ED Forums
 


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Old 12-19-2016, 11:36 AM   #21
Wissam24
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No, not sure why it's not working

Here is a link anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P8geRWfPEU
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:20 PM   #22
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Great post on taildraggers Chief Instructor

Good video here to go with this great write up, posted originally by Sobek on another forum about this same topic.

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Old 12-19-2016, 12:37 PM   #23
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Great post Chief.

Really good read, thank you for posting.
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:40 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Precog View Post
On a side note, I find the DCS p51 mustang much easier to takeoff and land than the spitfire - I guess all aircraft are different. I'm hoping the Citabria will be gentle with me otherwise Im going back to 'normal' planes '
Mind You, Mustang is the only taildragger in DCS, which has steerable tailwheel, making it completely "different kettle of fish" than the others during takeoffs and landings.
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:50 PM   #25
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I've made about 50 or so landing attempts in the spitfire I'd guess. Still haven't had a successful one, generally end up tipping onto the right wing tip after rolling out about 50-100 yards. What seems to happen is the plane will start to swerve right and the left rudder input is just enough to tip it over. I figure I'm doing something fundamentally wrong the same every time, just haven't figured it out yet. Fortunately for me the plane is never damaged and I can take off again right away for another attempt. Take off is no problem now!!
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:45 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitthead View Post
I've made about 50 or so landing attempts in the spitfire I'd guess. Still haven't had a successful one, generally end up tipping onto the right wing tip after rolling out about 50-100 yards. What seems to happen is the plane will start to swerve right and the left rudder input is just enough to tip it over. I figure I'm doing something fundamentally wrong the same every time, just haven't figured it out yet. Fortunately for me the plane is never damaged and I can take off again right away for another attempt. Take off is no problem now!!
The trick in landing, if you can call that a trick, is like in all TDs, one must try to keep the aeroplane absolutely straight, no drift or slip at all, and I mean at all. Even the slightest drift or slip while you plant your wheels on ground will result in an uncontrollable swerve as she's willing to due to CoG out of alignment with your displacement vector. The thing in a simulator is one has to learn to watch those really subtle clues that mean you're indeed drifting or slipping. With the Spitfire that is even more troubling than others due to narrow landing gear while P-51 or 190 have a wide landing gear that eases the manoeuvre (though they still are TDs, you know). Then, once on ground with a good alignment, the problem will be the same as taxi, but with a higher speed and having to brake safely, that's a different story related with OP by ChiefInstructor. Anyway, while airborne and on final approach, it's a good thing to play pedals in order to find the correct alignment of the ship like on ground, as explained in OP.

Good luck.


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Old 12-19-2016, 02:33 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ala13_ManOWar View Post
Superbly explained .

Hope some people out there having concerns about fidelity just because they cannot deal with tail draggers have a look at this so they finally get to know how to manage it .


Thank you very much for the read.
In sims taildragers seem easier to me than the tricycle gear planes like P39. It is easier to damage the gear and tail to me.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:38 PM   #28
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I totally agree about VR, I have only ever played DCS with VR, and when trying to do some mission making for the Spitfire, I was playing in 2d, and I could not for the life of my take off without quickly smashing into the ground. I do not usually (sometimes i get overzealous) in VR, much more obvious control and a better reaction time when you feel like you are really sitting in the pit.
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:57 PM   #29
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Although I understand your point of view and I personally am not a pilot. I have to disagree with parts of your essay.
In the time I have had DCS, I have had 3 A10 pilots come here and try it. One of them a retired instructor stationed at DMAFB who flew with a couple of P-51 pilots, and I had 2 Vietnam Huey pilots fly the DCS Huey.
Although these are not tail dragger aircraft, all 5 of the people who have come here and tried DCS all agree that it's pretty amazing and that the visual aspect of it and design is very close to where it should be. And I myself having flown in Hueys in the early 1980's while in the military, can also add limited input. All 5 of them said that the sim is much harder than RL for 3 reasons: 1. no sensation 2. no peripheral vision 3. no freedom of movement. 3 of the 5 told me that feel is a big part of the whole experience. And I myself remember the sensation of taking off in a Huey, ascending and descending, and movements that the pilot was making that caused me to lean one way or the other or hold on. That whole experience is just not there in any simulator that's PC based.
I can further say that I fly other PC sims as well, and I was privileged enough to be asked to fly several professional level simulators at a company called Arizona Flight Safety here in Tucson several years ago. I am absolutely convinced that flying a $40,000,000 simulator with hydraulics, that gave me the sensation of lift and descent made the piloting experience so much easier. Even little things like trimming the AC could be easily felt my body and I reacted much quicker to the sensation.
Of the simulators they had was a Bell 400. At the time I was relatively new to PC flight sims and was not at all adept at any helicopter in any PC sim. When I sat in the simulator and started moving the collective, the sensation of lift was immediate and my feet just started moving as though it was instinct. You cannot get that feeling from a PC. I was able to take off, fly to an LZ and land without any incident and It was worlds easier than any PC sim that I had ever flown in.
So in my personal opinion, and from the people who I have actually sat here with and know have flown these AC, and from my own experience with professional simulators. I tend to be skeptical of the essay. Not of the advice your giving, but that PC sims are no harder than RL aircraft. That's not to say that you are wrong. It's just not been my experience.
I believe that in many cases, the experience is different for everyone.


Let me recant on something. The A10 pilots told me that it just was weird not having the sensations and it made it feel very unnatural. They did not say that it was particularly harder. The Huey pilots however did say that it was harder.

Last edited by Zimmerdylan; 12-19-2016 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 12-19-2016, 08:11 PM   #30
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I think he is not saying that forces, gravity, etc aren't meaningful in general. He is saying that for the very specific case of ground looping, due to the nature of the force being basically a pendulum you can't really afford to wait until you feel the lateral deviation to apply input or you will be late to the party, so you will have to predict when to do it.

Not in any other case in general. I am not a pilot, but it's the same thing when you drive a car and you get into a simulator, you massively overreact because you lack all the physics.

Of course, visual cues are a HUGE thing we lack unless you run VR.

Last edited by The Legman; 12-19-2016 at 08:14 PM.
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