2017, Forum Moderation

Unconcluded, perfectly polite and proper threads are still getting closed because of their topic of discussion.

Examples?

The two that immidiately come to mind are razbam with their mig23 slip. perhaps they were in the wrong anouncing the way they did . But that does not mean this topic can't be discussed if the community is indeed open.

There might be more , outside of pit building and some Russian sections I'm not frequenting the forums to much lately to point them out.

But in that example all was said that needed to be said on that topic, at the time nothing was known, later Wags gave a little more information on it, but for what it was, the topic was no longer needed, and no longer on topic for RAZBAM section as they are not doing the MiG23.

Posts above like "thanks for not banning" even if in jest are a sign of ongoing intimidation , how is this healthy? Lack of critical conversation is not maturity, it's sterilleness.

Clearly you guys use some other criteria then me to gauge openness and health. Oh well.

If there is any intimidation, its not warranted, and a big reason behind this thread. Nobody gets their posting rights revoked or suspended unless they break the rules that are clearly written for all to read. We have many many threads critical of issues with DCS and 3rd Party products, we dont stifle opinion, but we do expect the message to be made in a mature manner.

I think you are confusing openness with free for all. And a free for all would not be health when this forum is meant to appeal to people of all ages and nationalities.

This is a great thread! I already have a question: Why does the screenshot thread, the most innocent of them all and going for 12 years without a problem, suddenly has "no discussion or comment" rule on it? Plenty of times people were sharing helpful tips for example...

This was done because we had complaints about discussions taking off and running a couple pages when people were going there expecting screenshots. If you want to find out something about a screenshot, you can always PM the person who took it, or even start a discussion thread asking how to do it, but we want that thread to just be screenshots.

I can't say I'm surprised by this reply. By all means feel free to close any conversation that you don't like to take place.

But how then can a forum be described as "open" when administration decides for members when they said enough? I don't see any offence, rudeness or anything improper in that conversation, I don't see it as concluded. I understand you would rather it to not take place altogether, but you cannot possibly know that nobody had anything else to add. You seriously don't see any contradiction here?

 

And sorry, no, I don't see how I am possibly confusing concept of open and free for All here .

But you are reading into it once again, it wasnt closed because "I" or "ED" didnt like it, its because people were getting upset because there was a lot of confusion about what happened. Keeping that conversation open was doing no good for anyone, arguments were starting, incorrect theories were being developed, the thread had run its course.

What more did you need to come from that thread? We already know that:

1) Everyone likes the idea of the MiG 23

2) RAZBAM isnt doing it.

What else is needed? Why would RAZBAM like a thread in their section discussing a module they are not developing? I am trying to see your point here, but I am still missing it.

Regarding moderation, would it be possible to review the practice of fully deleting posts when the mod team have had to step in?

 

I can fully understand deleting a run of them if they're seriously disrupted the flow, but quite often it's just one or two posts. It's often a lot clearer what's been going on and what the mod team have had to do when they simply edit posts to be something like "Post removed due to Rule x.y violation --Mod name" and even with caveats like "User was suspended for this post", and done in a different colour too.

 

Seen it in other forums and it tends to make moderation seem a lot more open.

 

Just an idea to make moderation a bit more transparent.

Actually, we have asked the webmaster to make it so deleted posts are now shown to all, so you can see a post was deleted an why. I dont want to share punishment to all, I dont think that is fair. We already show suspended people having an + by their name.

Change seems to have taken effect already. That's a great idea, thanks for implementing it so quickly! :thumbup:

Yes, we are hoping it will add a level of transparency to the forums, exactly what Buzzles suggested above. Its trial right now, so we will make sure it doesnt upset people seeing dead posts :)

This brings up a good point. No I am not a paid ED employee, but you should be aware of two things.

1) I talk to Matt probably on a daily basis at any given time of day. Matt probably views the forum as much as anyone here, to think I could make a statement about ED on my own and assume its not what ED really agrees with is just not going to happen.

2) I am confident in saying that Matt trusts me not to make a statement I am unsure about, and that if I do make a statement, that I am using my brain, and if I am unsure, I am bugging him.

This goes for major moderation issues and such, Matt is very involved in this, its not just me and the mod team running amok.

As for the content of that thread, donations is simply not up for discussion right now. It had been stated that donations arent allowed for mods that use anything from DCS World, this is not greed, although come on, ED needs to make money, but this is also a quality insurance thing, we can go into that more if you need to.

So yes, we want discussions to happen here, but no, we dont want discussions on stuff that just isnt going to change, such as the MiG23 from RAZBAM and donations, all that will happen is people get all worked up about it, and it just wont change.

Who develops a module, and how people make money off of DCS World has to be left up to ED, that is not to say that I dont think there is a couple mods out there that do deserve to be rewarded, it has to be done through ED.

Nobody can automatically assume that at any point, you're echoing ED's opinions and not just your own.

That is what I am trying to make clear now, me, or any of the moderators wont make any statements for ED, unless its what ED wants. Why have a moderation team if you dont believe anything we say or do being in ED's best interest, or based on ED's company line. Just because maybe you dont like the reason or you dont think its good enough, doesnt mean that you need to hear it from Matt's account, I would rather he stay busy on Hornet documentation than moderation ;)

ok, so a couple things.

The owner of that site might be better to ask, but ED doesnt feel his intentions for that site match that of ED's. Therefor they cant justify promoting it here. We cant tell you were to go to get your Flight Sim fix, but ED wont promote sites that show hostility towards its user base, or at least the user base that enjoys ED's products. If the owner of that site or any other wants to mend fences they should do it through Wags or other high ranking ED people, until then I dont want to come off like I am bashing anyone. I would love more of these sites to do well, they just need to decide what they want to be. Mudspike does well, I have seen negative things towards ED and other developers, but always mature and respectful. Anyways... I can answer more about that, but again, I dont want to get anyones nose out of joint.

One more thing on donations... ED will help you get support for your mod, if your mod is of a quality and standard that you think will improve DCS, then approach ED and see what he has to say. I have pointed out a couple to ED that I would love to see become official, but the timing has to be right as it would still require ED support to add in most cases.

ED making comments about the MiG23 are a little more complex, simply put, they arent ready to say anything on that or any other module in development, the gaff by RAZBAM forced their hand a little, and occasionally ED likes to give supported sites like Mudspike a bonus and drop some tidbits there. Its not an official statement, it was just to try and address it without giving away too much.

Why dont they want to give away much, being silent makes speculation run wild! Sure, but people will speculate no matter what, a few years back ED laid out plans for a number of modules. But things happen, they have problems getting permission, or data, or it just takes more time than realized. Maybe they have to develop new tech, or maybe something else comes up. So then it because, ED is doing X, Y and Z.... then it becomes where is X.Y and Z we were "promised", then it becomes ED missed the delivery dates on X, Y and Z...

See where I am going? If we could all agree that ED will tell us a plan, and we will accept it could take a couple years, they might have to drop something due to unforeseen problems, and we wont burn down the ED offices, then maybe we wouldnt have to live in the dark... but unfortunately that isnt always the case. So instead of disappointing you with info, they take the easier path of holding on to their cards until the concrete sets.

Well the discussion is going on apparently, alright then, I'll bite.

 

Why was the thread about announcing twomoreweeks.net deleted, as far as I know without any information as to why.

 

I may have missed something but, as far as I have seen there was no ill intent, nor any semblance of a flamewar going on over there the last time I have seen the thread. As far as I know, it was just an announcement of an independent sim news/community articles site, and one mainly centered around DCS at that.

 

As to moderation team reflecting ED, and not their own personal judgement, I for one never had any other impression.

 

Interestingly though, I kinda understand the one about donation thread, and even though I personally think that Razbam's premature MiG case would cause much less steam being vented by people if Wags posted what he did on mudspike here instead, I also understand why just everything about the business can't be told us great unwashed. Nor can the incessant brewing of conspiracy theories and wild guessing be allowed to flourish.

 

When left in total dark with what appear as heavy hands silencing the discussions however, that's all the people can do: to speculate wildly. Like I've said, I believe that the whole thing could have ended fairly nicely with Wags or anyone from mod team saying what he said on mudspike here, and just then lock the thread. Still, I do understand that one too.

 

There still are however, cases where I just can't think of a benign reason for administrative action, twomoreweeks.net announcement being one of them.

PS tmw.com response to this post I guess was to ban me from their FB, so there is that lol.

So things promoted here can only be things that promote or advertise the ED "party line?" That's such a sad, closed-off idea of a community. If you want a real community you have to let people enjoy real dialog and creative endeavor. This is not the kind of change I was dearly hoping your post might be announcing.

Not sure what you expect from a company forum? At the end of the day this forum is to support ED products and the people that purchase and use them.

Sith, you can't expect me not to get upset about this thing when you clearly haven't read a single word from that thread. "ED needs to make money...", "ED won't do QC...", "ED might help if we get in touch..." - this is all explained in there. And I don't think anybody wants a few "elite" mods to become paid... did we forget about the whole Valve paid mods fiasco? Also, the proposed solution was something that worked in other games for years without a single problem (which I mentioned there as well).

 

And no, I'm not typing this because I'm salty that the thing didn't go through, I just feel like a fool when everything I type gets flushed into the toilet.

I never asked to be paid, nor did I suggest it, as for donations I said my piece on it, that isn't what this thread is about.

And saying everything you type gets flushed is being unfairly dramatic...

Humour does not always carry well for everyone on an international forum and can be taken seriously when it may not have been intended, or he is being serious lol

While we are here doing this I want to thank the forum users who use the report post function, be it for rule breaking or for spam bots, it is a great help as sometimes on a busy forum like ours it is difficult to get around to every post. :)