fast stopping to a hover

when youre above 80 knots, do you lower collective first, then reset trim to bubble up and then work the trim to hover or do you gradually trim aft and left slowly while also lowering collective and applying course rudder?

what is the right way to do it if youre landing in a tight spot, FFG, mountainous terrain, regular airport?

is it considered cheating to mark the approximate hover control position on the monitor with a marker?

Why use trim at all?

If your talking about stopping real quick I normally lower collective bring the nose up avoid flaring and gaining height I normally want to keep about 5ft off the ground then with nose up apply collective you will have to work toque and cyclic to keep on course. sometimes you may need to turn side on to get more angle with the rotor and not embed the tail in the ground.

I know it's the MI8 but same thing.

http://users.on.net/~rkwmd/DCS/Gettingitmaybe.mp4

As for hovering you should know what the psi on the toque gauge reading is for hover and climb and cruse it will vary with the weight of the aircraft temp and air pressure but that is more indicative then say a physical position of collective.

That's kinda how I understand it. :D

Why use trim at all?

 

If your talking about stopping real quick I normally lower collective bring the nose up avoid flaring and gaining height I normally want to keep about 5ft off the ground then with nose up apply collective you will have to work toque and cyclic to keep on course. sometimes you may need to turn side on to get more angle with the rotor and not embed the tail in the ground.

 

I know it's the MI8 but same thing.

http://users.on.net/~rkwmd/DCS/Gettingitmaybe.mp4

 

As for hovering you should know what the psi on the toque gauge reading is for hover and climb and cruse it will vary with the weight of the aircraft temp and air pressure but that is more indicative then say a physical position of collective.

 

That's kinda how I understand it. :D

I read somewhere that operating* a helicopter is like riding a unicycle while juggling...collective, torque, cyclic, turn sideways = sounds like unicycle + juggling to me! Quite the skill to operate!

*Heard in the USAF: “Helicopters don’t fly, they beat the air into submission.”

I read somewhere that operating* a helicopter is like riding a unicycle while juggling...collective, torque, cyclic, turn sideways = sounds like unicycle + juggling to me! Quite the skill to operate!

I know right, still learning however I can't ride a unicycle and I can't juggle and i miss the ground sometimes. :lol:

*Heard in the USAF: “Helicopters don’t fly, they beat the air into submission.”

Sure you can beat the air but they also fly too. :D

The key is to make gentle inputs. 5 degree nose up and gently reduce collective. Try to stay on the same height intil hover. The better you get the faster you can try to execute.

when youre above 80 knots, do you lower collective first, then reset trim to bubble up and then work the trim to hover or do you gradually trim aft and left slowly while also lowering collective and applying course rudder?

 

what is the right way to do it if youre landing in a tight spot, FFG, mountainous terrain, regular airport?

 

is it considered cheating to mark the approximate hover control position on the monitor with a marker?

The trick may sound boring, but it is very simple and rewarding: it's called approach procedures.

I found this a good read: http://www.copters.com/pilot/maneuvers.html

If you do them right, all of the sudden your helicopter will stop jinxing and you will land exactly where you want to. I also second to not use trim like said before, but remove the springs of your joystick. I modded my warthog so it would roughly stay in position if I let go of it, but still feel some force (Jets fly fine this way). I would only use trim if I had a force feedback joystick, because then it works like the real thing. With spring loaded sticks trim is really just a compromise.

The trick may sound boring, but it is very simple and rewarding: it's called approach procedures.

I found this a good read: http://www.copters.com/pilot/maneuvers.html

 

If you do them right, all of the sudden your helicopter will stop jinxing and you will land exactly where you want to. I also second to not use trim like said before, but remove the springs of your joystick. I modded my warthog so it would roughly stay in position if I let go of it, but still feel some force (Jets fly fine this way). I would only use trim if I had a force feedback joystick, because then it works like the real thing. With spring loaded sticks trim is really just a compromise.

Nice thanks. :thumbup:

Just a tip which sounds counter intuitive until you try it. lift collective momentarily before you decelerate as this will change the attitude of the chopper and lift the nose slightly, then lower collective keeping the nose up without increasing height. Taught to me by an RL AH-64 pilot so I guess he should know:)

Just a tip which sounds counter intuitive until you try it. lift collective momentarily before you decelerate as this will change the attitude of the chopper and lift the nose slightly, then lower collective keeping the nose up without increasing height. Taught to me by an RL AH-64 pilot so I guess he should know:)

Yes that works well. I do this especially to get the turbine loaded again so it would rev up. If you bleed all the energy into the rotor, the tubine spins down to idle, if you then request a lot of power, it takes a bit until the turbine is able to provide it and your Rotor-RPM will sink below minimum.

Another very nice fast-stop technique is to do a 180 turn. Come in fast a little offset to the LZ, with collective down and stick aft, bank the helicopter hard and pull collective to initiate the turn. You should be able to keep the stick relatively close to hover position, so you can manage nose attitude with collective and be at a stop when the turn is finished. With a little practice you can put the huey on the pad right after the turn with ease. Imho one of the fastest stopping techniques. I have frequently observed AS350s with a cement-bucket on a slingload use this technique on concrete runs. Looks very spectacular :)

I have frequently observed AS350s with a cement-bucket on a slingload use this technique on concrete runs. Looks very spectacular :)

Apologies for the proceeding rant, but this is a talking point among helicopter operators around the world.

While I agree it looks great, it is dangerous to be doing quick-stops with an underslung load, especially on a low inertia rotor system.

The reason so many civilian operators will do stuff like this is literally money. Helicoptering is expensive work, and to break even for a forestry or industry job you have to work fast to get as much done as possible (many industry contracts are paid by the load!). The pressure to pull off risky maneuvers to get the job done is huge and costs less-skilled pilots dearly (you only have to google underslung load incidents in ag ops to see).

Efficiency doesn't have to be lost by doing standard load approaches, slow is smooth and smooth is fast, and time (money) can be made up elsewhere in the mission than the most critical phase of flight.

Back on topic, the initiation is covered well, I guess all I can add is don't forget to bring collective in as you approach 40kts (don't wait till you start losing height as its too late!)

Just a tip which sounds counter intuitive until you try it. lift collective momentarily before you decelerate as this will change the attitude of the chopper and lift the nose slightly, then lower collective keeping the nose up without increasing height. Taught to me by an RL AH-64 pilot so I guess he should know:)

great tip, only drawback we cant feel if were in the trim position or approximate or we are going backwards at the stop. your apache man can feel it because hes inside it.

I modded my warthog so it would roughly stay in position if I let go of it, but still feel some force (Jets fly fine this way).

How did you do this with Warthog?

Thanks

How did you do this with Warthog?

 

Thanks

Just open the topcover, remove the big spring, and put 3 of the 4 small springs on the top of the big slider, then close it again. Very simple and effective. I never used trim eversince.

when youre above 80 knots, do you lower collective first, then reset trim to bubble up and then work the trim to hover or do you gradually trim aft and left slowly while also lowering collective and applying course rudder?

 

what is the right way to do it if youre landing in a tight spot, FFG, mountainous terrain, regular airport?

 

is it considered cheating to mark the approximate hover control position on the monitor with a marker?

I would not see it as cheating since in DCS the ingame control position can differ from your joystick position. This would not be possible IRL since the trim in the huey is just a magnetic brake. I start the terrain decel with an increase in collective to be able to 'rotate' around the tail, this will help you once the caucus map has collidable trees. Thereafter lower the collective but not all the way down, since you dont want to enter an autorotation and decouple the transmission. Just a few psi of torque will keep rotor rpm in limits. simultaneously Raise the nose, but dont overdo it since you also need to be able to maintain your altitude and the higher you raise the nose the more (insufficient) power you need to keep you from building up a sink rate. A headwind will allow you to to a quicker decel. If stopping with a tailwind, you need to lower the nose (towards hovering attitude) earlier while approaching etl/hover and accept a longer decel.

This procedure will also work with a 180, just apply bank once around 50-60 knots. Ofcourse the amount of nose high in the final part will depend on power available, weight, wind and if your doing it OGE or IGE.

Beautifully excuted! Thanks

I would not see it as cheating since in DCS the ingame control position can differ from your joystick position. This would not be possible IRL since the trim in the huey is just a magnetic brake. I start the terrain decel with an increase in collective to be able to 'rotate' around the tail, this will help you once the caucus map has collidable trees. Thereafter lower the collective but not all the way down, since you dont want to enter an autorotation and decouple the transmission. Just a few psi of torque will keep rotor rpm in limits. simultaneously Raise the nose, but dont overdo it since you also need to be able to maintain your altitude and the higher you raise the nose the more (insufficient) power you need to keep you from building up a sink rate. A headwind will allow you to to a quicker decel. If stopping with a tailwind, you need to lower the nose (towards hovering attitude) earlier while approaching etl/hover and accept a longer decel.

This procedure will also work with a 180, just apply bank once around 50-60 knots. Ofcourse the amount of nose high in the final part will depend on power available, weight, wind and if your doing it OGE or IGE.

 

Like they say hello are a collection of part flying in formation