Proper procedure for timing racetracks - Page 3 - ED Forums
 


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Old 07-19-2018, 05:38 PM   #21
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Timing procedure I use:
- check time-over-holding-fix when you start your outbound turn (or start an elapsed-time-counter)
- monitor the elapsed time you needed for your 180-turn (TTurn)

- as soon as out of the 180: check time-remaining-until-your-expected approach time (Tremaining)
- calc: Tremaining-Tturn=T2legs | T2legs : 2 = T1leg
- fly the outbound leg for the time you calculated (T1leg), then start your inbound turn


In other words:
- check what time you need for the first turn (to know how much time you will need for the second turn)
- check how much remaining time you have after that first turn until you have to be at the holding fix
- substract the time you will need for the 2nd turn from the remaining time you have to get the available time you have for both legs (outbound and inbound) and divide that by 2 to get the time you have to fly on the outbound leg

Edit: Use minor speed corrections on the inbound leg to compensate wind and moving-away ship, maybe start the inbound turn just a a few seconds (5-10 seconds) earlier to compensate for the moving-away ship (during a 3 minutes flight time it moves approx. 1 NM away given a boat speed of 20 kts)
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =4c=Nikola View Post
I don't think it's rude, I just think you underestimate the task.

I've yet to find official information for AET time tolerance.

If it's inside assigned minute, it's really not a big deal. I believe that's not case because that would allow two aircraft to exit with only one second separation.

If it's +-15 sec it's not a big deal.

If it's +-5 sec it starts to be a problem - you have to plan carefully for that.

If you need to hit exact second on exact mile, that's too much workload. That requires too much attention in busy airspace.


It's even more important in game where we do not have ATC to coordinate traffic.

I don't think I underestimate it, I just don't think it's all that complicated as long as you're staying on top of where you are and when you have to leave. I've done it many times either in holds or passing over a drop point to drop skydivers for SOCOM demos. In all honesty, it's nearly eyeballing it and I've done it to the second.
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:14 PM   #23
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I just read through this myself because I've been looking at the Case I and Case II/III holding patterns. CV OPS manual for the T-45 says that 6-minute patterns are standard: 2-minute turns and 1-minute legs. Performed at either max conserve fuel flow or NATOPS holding speed. CV NATOPS says holding speed is according to individual aircraft NATOPS. The Hornet's NFM-000 NATOPS only gives 220-240kts between 15,000 and 20,000 feet. And I'm guessing the max conserve fuel flow is something that needs to be calculated from the NFM-200 charts.

So problem number one is: What speed should we be flying the patterns at?

And problem number two is: How do we find out our AoB to make a 2-minute turn at whatever that speed will be...preferably without breaking out a Ti-84.
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:22 PM   #24
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you fly the pattern at max endurance speed - FPAS page will show that once it is implemented, for now you can take AoA 5.6 degree as reference.
You HAVE to adjust the standard pattern length/time to hit your expected approach time - how-to see above.
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Old 07-20-2018, 01:10 PM   #25
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5.6 degreees AoA during the turns at any airspeed?
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Old 07-20-2018, 02:32 PM   #26
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5.6 in level flight provides max endurance speed (at any acft.-weight and altitude). Maintain that speed during turns as well. Minor deviations doesn't matter.

Edit: By the way - flying 4.2 AoA provides max range cruise speed.
-> page 332, chapter III-7-26, "7.2.8 Cruise" in the NATOPS
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Old 07-20-2018, 03:05 PM   #27
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If you open the ADI page on the mfd, you have a turn indicator at the bottom, when the lower rectangle is in between the top rectangle it is a 2min for 180° turn, if it is bellow the right most or left most rectangle it is a 1min for 180° turn. Very useful !

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Old 07-20-2018, 08:38 PM   #28
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Ha! I used a method that would take an hour to type up, but it entails assuming four miles per minute, and two minute turns at each end of the racetrack.

You speed up or slow down/play your turn to sync up to an "even DME", that puts you at a DME from your holding fix that is divisible by a minute of flight time, which is assumed to be four miles at Max Conserve TAS of 240 knots, or at turn entry or exit. See what I mean?

A senior pilot briefed me on the technique, and I never had difficulty making my time. You had to fudge a little for winds aloft vs the ship's movement. Get into marshal early, play the DME vs time as you arrive, and continue while in the pattern. The goal is to hit the push fix at an even number, divisible by four, six, eight, minutes etc prior to your push time, in order to simplify things. You just turn back as necessary, assuming four miles per minute and a two minute (half standard rate, you are too fast for SRT) turn at each end.

And yes, you were expected to push on time at the right place. Ten seconds off was unacceptable.

Not something that I am interested in suffering through in a combat sim again. Case III wasn't fun.
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Old 07-20-2018, 09:08 PM   #29
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Good grief ladies, you’ve got a mission computer that will tell you exactly when you’ll hit any waypoint. Use it.
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Old 07-20-2018, 10:07 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backy 51 View Post
Good grief ladies, you’ve got a mission computer that will tell you exactly when you’ll hit any waypoint. Use it.
I look forward to you explaining how to use the MC to leave the hold at an assigned time.
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