how to get flight level trimmed...

Sometimes when formation flying I do more than normal trimming and then find the plane gets nose heavy and wants to dive. Trimming nose up for a while eventually levels me out. It's interesting that I'm balance trimming so I don't understand why the dramatic out of trim.

Is there an easier/quicker way to get flight level?

Thank you.

In flight configuration, the Hornet auto trims to 1G. You should only have to manually trim out role for any asymmetrical load.

In flight configuration, the Hornet auto trims to 1G. You should only have to manually trim out role for any asymmetrical load.

Yes I realize that is normally how things go but when things don't go that way...is there an easier/quicker way to get flight level other than manually trimming?

Is there an FCS or other setting that will do this for you at the press of a button like I believe the F-15 or Mig?

T/o trim? There's also an actual fcs reset switch near it but I don't know what it will do while airborne

T/o trim? There's also an actual fcs reset switch near it but I don't know what it will do while airborne

These are WoW settings.

Sometimes when formation flying I do more than normal trimming and then find the plane gets nose heavy and wants to dive. Trimming nose up for a while eventually levels me out. It's interesting that I'm balance trimming so I don't understand why the dramatic out of trim.

Is there an easier/quicker way to get flight level?

 

Thank you.

You should not have to adjust the trim of the F/A-18C while formation flying. As another stated, the FCS auto trims to 1G. Only once you have an asymmetrical configuration, should adjusting the trim be something that you have to do.

If it is wake turbulence that you are experiencing, which is wildly over exaggerated in DCS(another Hornet should not "throw" you around like it currently does), it just requires you to be very active in managing the attitude of the aircraft.

Cheers,

Don

Being trimmed to 1G does not equate to level flight, only that your vertical speed will be constant.

Edit: Missed the bit about the aircraft becoming increasingly 'nose heavy'. That does seem odd, I've never noticed attitude changing when everything else is constant.

I agree with others that you should not need to touch pitch trim in the Hornet at all other than landing. The Hornet does not change its pitch trim away from 1G no matter what changes about its speed or weight, so if you put the FPM on the horizon it should roughly stay there, barring turbulence. Formation flying should not require any pitch trim. Don't expect to fly hands-off when formation flying, you need to be actively flying based on cues and changes from your sight picture of your wingman.

I dunno about others, but since last update, I feel the Hornet trim is definitely sluggish and errate. Confirmed by other Hornet drivers in yesterday's formation training. And in formation flying (straighht and level) you need to be trimmed to be "almost" hands free (as you do it in solo straight and level fligth too). Just my 2 cent...

Thanks all for your input. Maybe I'm not explaining it clearly. When doing air to air refueling I use trim to make the very subtle flight adjustments needed to keep formation as neither the tanker nor I are flying on rails.

When finished refueling and break away, I then experience this issue...as if I dramatically trimmed to an extreme which I don't.

I don't usually have this issue the rest of the time flying if not refueling.

Thanks all for your input. Maybe I'm not explaining it clearly. When doing air to air refueling I use trim to make the very subtle flight adjustments needed to keep formation as neither the tanker nor I are flying on rails.

When finished refueling and break away, I then experience this issue...as if I dramatically trimmed to an extreme which I don't.

 

I don't usually have this issue the rest of the time flying if not refueling.

Well if you are getting a substantial amount of fuel transfer from contact with tanker, your aircraft’s weight distribution will most likely be changed by a pretty decent amount... I personally don’t adjust trim while AAR. Just make very fine and constant adjustments to throttle, pitch and roll. Sorry I can’t be of any real help to you with your question(s).

Cheers,

Don

Well if you are getting a substantial amount of fuel transfer from contact with tanker, your aircraft’s weight distribution will most likely be changed by a pretty decent amount... I personally don’t adjust trim while AAR. Just make very fine and constant adjustments to throttle, pitch and roll. Sorry I can’t be of any real help to you with your question(s).

 

Cheers,

 

Don

Throttle control is no problem but to just use stick instead of trim to make micro flight adjustments in feet or inches is not precise enough, I find myself over correcting except when using trim...much more precise, feel like I can thread a needle with the nose of my plane.

Throttle control is no problem but to just use stick instead of trim to make micro flight adjustments in feet or inches is not precise enough, I find myself over correcting except when using trim...much more precise, feel like I can thread a needle with the nose of my plane.

With respect , you are creating a problem . By trimming g , your pitch attitude will never be stable . I would look for another cause for your concern , or consider adjusting pitch curve . This assumes you are not dealing with a bug .

Maybe I'm not explaining it clearly. When doing air to air refueling I use trim to make the very subtle flight adjustments needed to keep formation as neither the tanker nor I are flying on rails.

When finished refueling and break away, I then experience this issue...as if I dramatically trimmed to an extreme which I don't.

Ohhhhhh, that makes more sense now. You're trimming away from 1G intentionally and then having problems returning to neutral trim. As others have said, trim is not intended to be used as a flight control and experimenting with a pitch curve may be a better solution for you.

Still, it's interesting that you presumably don't have an issue maintaining level flight while refueling and then it becomes a problem after refueling is complete. Do you notice it right on disconnect or does it happen some time later? Does the Hornet change the FCS gains with the refueling probe extended? That may explain it if that's the case, but I don't know.

With respect , you are creating a problem . By trimming g , your pitch attitude will never be stable . I would look for another cause for your concern , or consider adjusting pitch curve . This assumes you are not dealing with a bug .

So you use stick only?

Yes. I havent flown the hornet in a while but if you turn on the barometric AP it really dampens the pitch. As long as you dont go to far and disable it. Probably not proper procedure but it made it doable for me.

Ohhhhhh, that makes more sense now. You're trimming away from 1G intentionally and then having problems returning to neutral trim. As others have said, trim is not intended to be used as a flight control and experimenting with a pitch curve may be a better solution for you.

 

Still, it's interesting that you presumably don't have an issue maintaining level flight while refueling and then it becomes a problem after refueling is complete. Do you notice it right on disconnect or does it happen some time later? Does the Hornet change the FCS gains with the refueling probe extended? That may explain it if that's the case, but I don't know.

Correct.

I would have to adjust curve a lot which would make regular flight a bit sluggish on response.

I'll pay attention to the FCS next time, this could be part of it.

If you're supposed to use stick only and no trim I'll have to relearn AAR.

Once I get 'refueling complete' and the basket retracts, I return to 500kts and that's when I have the nose heavy issue. As I've mentioned trimming up a great deal will eventually correct this. I don't understand why I need to trim up so much in respect to the up/down trimming I did to fly formation.

Thanks to all for the input!

Also it sounds like you’re also hitting wake turbulence coming off the Tanker. I would think that it wouldn’t be that dramatic, but I’m not a pilot so I don’t really know.

Also it sounds like you’re also hitting wake turbulence coming off the Tanker. I would think that it wouldn’t be that dramatic, but I’m not a pilot so I don’t really know.

It's fairly smooth, just adjusting for a slight up/down movement.

I thought trimming the stabilizer was the same as making micro stick movements?

You should not fly the aircraft with trim, you should trim only to adjust stick loads. AAR and all formation flying should be flown with stick only and not trim.

You should not fly the aircraft with trim, you should trim only to adjust stick loads. AAR and all formation flying should be flown with stick only and not trim.

OK thanks...back to work:pilotfly:

I thought trimming the stabilizer was the same as making micro stick movements?

Yes and no. Ultimately, in the Hornet, trim results in control surface deflection by the FCS. This is in contrast to some other aircraft, mostly those with mechanical control linkages, where the trim controls move separate control surfaces from the stick.

In the Hornet trim is a stick deflection bias. Trimming in any direction is the equivalent of moving the stick in that direction and holding it there. This gets complicated with pitch trim though, since the Hornet has a relative pitch trim that adjusts itself automatically to changes in lift.

Yes and no. Ultimately, in the Hornet, trim results in control surface deflection by the FCS. This is in contrast to some other aircraft, mostly those with mechanical control linkages, where the trim controls move separate control surfaces from the stick.

 

In the Hornet trim is a stick deflection bias. Trimming in any direction is the equivalent of moving the stick in that direction and holding it there. This gets complicated with pitch trim though, since the Hornet has a relative pitch trim that adjusts itself automatically to changes in lift.

Thanks, I thought it was strictly a mechanical adjustment that did not affect other flight aspects. I didn't take into account that trim may be influencing other fly-by-wire controls, sort of like a domino affect.

Get it close, put it in BALT autopilot, should be smooth after that. The only real trimming you should need to do is for asymmetrical payloads.

Yes I have been putting it into BALT, of course the moment you make a minor pitch adjustment you lose BALT but still stay in the A/P mode that still somewhat mutes your controls to help keep flight smooth...thanks for the confirmation on that aspect.

I wonder if for the sake of having micro control like I did with the trim, if I can in addition map stick control through the 4-way on the stick, would it give me the same micro control that trimming did...or not. Just a thought?

I will try later on tonight and see if I can do it as it should be done.

You should also look into your deadzones and stick curves (unless you have a realistic stick length). Fine control and aggressive maneuvers should both be possible for you.

This shouldn't be nearly as difficult as you're describing it. AP modes and "flying by trim" should not be needed. Many of us have successful transfers using nothing but joystick inputs. This should certainly be possible for you too.