Quarterly Update Q3 2016

Awesome update,

Read it on facebook...

Looking forward to P-40 and New Hawk Art!

Tigercat is very likely, P-38 is not in scope for us I am afraid

 

Pman

A Tigercat would be wonderful :)

Personally I am much more inclined of being in favour of VEAO and supporting them in all possible ways, like buying their products, being patient for problems to be solved and not making negative comments (which I have, not too many but I have.)

The only thing that really worries me and will affect the VEAO team very much is the next module.

Lots of people will complain and definitely loose faith in you guys if this next module, be it the P40 or another, has big flaws or is not similar in quality to other modules in DCS because that's what people compare them to. I'm sure you know this better than me, but I wouldn't put out the P40 if its not going to be in a level like a Belsimtek product for example. Its wiser to keep delaying it until its in a condition where no one can seriously complain.

Again personally I don't care, I would buy it anyway, I like your HAWK, but what I can see is that other people don't give grace and cant understand its a Beta product from a new company in a continuously changing software.

Some people can say that other 3rd parties are in the same situation but we have to understand that different people face different problems, like LN with one of their founders or consultant of the Mig 21, the guys that were doing the Normandy Map which ED took care off, the ED themselves with the NTTR map for whatever reason, Aviodev with their c101, etc.. etc..

Veao has had its problems which are obviously different to the others and affect them also in a different way. At least they are here trying to solve them and learn from them.

Those of you who feel negative think of those 3rd parties that have come and gone and choose what do you prefer this situation or a non existent 3rd party???

Try to stay positive in a reasonable way, no one is saying "we did a mistake now take it down your throat" :)

Personally I am much more inclined of being in favour of VEAO and supporting them in all possible ways, like buying their products, being patient for problems to be solved and not making negative comments (which I have, not too many but I have.)

The only thing that really worries me and will affect the VEAO team very much is the next module.

 

Lots of people will complain and definitely loose faith in you guys if this next module, be it the P40 or another, has big flaws or is not similar in quality to other modules in DCS because that's what people compare them to. I'm sure you know this better than me, but I wouldn't put out the P40 if its not going to be in a level like a Belsimtek product for example. Its wiser to keep delaying it until its in a condition where no one can seriously complain.

 

Again personally I don't care, I would buy it anyway, I like your HAWK, but what I can see is that other people don't give grace and cant understand its a Beta product from a new company in a continuously changing software.

 

Some people can say that other 3rd parties are in the same situation but we have to understand that different people face different problems, like LN with one of their founders or consultant of the Mig 21, the guys that were doing the Normandy Map which ED took care off, the ED themselves with the NTTR map for whatever reason, Aviodev with their c101, etc.. etc..

Veao has had its problems which are obviously different to the others and affect them also in a different way. At least they are here trying to solve them and learn from them.

Those of you who feel negative think of those 3rd parties that have come and gone and choose what do you prefer this situation or a non existent 3rd party???

Try to stay positive in a reasonable way, no one is saying we did a mistake now take it down your throught :)

I would say in my opinion, and I stress it is only an opinion. I believe VEAO are trying to ensure that when this P-40 arrives with us it will be in a much more polished state, I believe they have discussed training tutorials etc. So yes I think they have learned lessons from the past.

I would like to mention again, I say again because I have mentioned it many times. I got a chance to try the P-40 at Duxford airshow this year, this was a good 5 or so months a go bear in mind. And this is from someone that has every DCS Module as well. It was superb, admittedly I was also trying it with Oculus Rift, but even so the quality of the visuals, textures 3D modelling. I was seriously impressed. And from the limited flying I have done in light aircraft it was complete immersion I can tell you, I loved it. I gained a serious amount of respect for them as a development team that day. And I feel this module will really show everyone exactly what they are capable of as a developer. You can tell the quality of the cockpit by the screen shots they have posted if you don't take my word for it anyway.

I think this is a step in the right direction, especially with the multi seat support. I applaud VEAO for taking the step in the right direction. I bought the HAWK and many other modules to support the DCS development and 3rd parties that are expanding the DCS environment faster than ED can do by itself. Even though I don't fly it often, I will shelf it for when its up to standard, in the mean time there is plenty of content currently available and that will be available shortly to keep me busy for a while, and any negative comments and more pressure on the developers is not going to get you what you want any faster, so whats the point.

I was a pessimist towards VEAO because of the quality of the Hawk. Not to mention the near constant bashing they receive from some of the community... then I saw the P-40 screenies from earlier this year. Still wasn't too impressed, then I read how much they were to be improved.

I read they were going to re-do the ASM code for the Hawk, which I was pretty thrilled about because I love flying the Hawk even with its flaws.

Then I went through the Typhoon section and saw how much effort they're going to for commercial contracts (also the fact that they succeeded in getting a contract)

All of the above combined with the recent dev updates have really made me respect VEAO as a developer for DCS. I've started watching progress more closely. I've started going out of my way to defend VEAO when people base their criticisms on the Hawk or rumors and nothing else.

You guys are doing an amazing job and I can't wait until you really suprise the community with some fantastic modules.

I am afraid this is my opinion as well. I purchased the Hawk and it won't take off after a ramp start..won't budge a nats tail. Disappointed with the cockpit graphics but that's old ground. Overall, I am left wondering why the other developed aircraft don't have this problem or recoding etc. Basically I have to come down to the conclusion that the code was naff and not up to DCS standard, which is another way of saying the guy who is coding needs to be let go and a DCS standard computer coder hired.

 

Mizzy

Hmm, is anybody aware, that Aviojet is still coding/recoding their AFM, integrating Dual Cockpit etc.?

Not put a blame, just they had similar issues, so there are indeed other planes "affected", in some way, by the heavy development and some of the early code they produced...

Yet, all developers still, accept this as a challenge and go on to better their products, enhance existing stuff, even add new features, usually for free.

I don't understand the hostility around here to the companies breathing life into our precious hobby?!

Think about it, do you see a company like EA or Ubisoft taking over the sim niche any time soon? Any other alternatives? And you still try to blame, threaten, judge and hate these guys?

An interesting strategy. What are these people trying to achieve? Have some of the 3rd parties quit, so we have less planes to learn and keep it "more simple"? :dunno:

Hmm, is anybody aware, that Aviojet is still coding/recoding their AFM, integrating Dual Cockpit etc.?

 

Not put a blame, just they had similar issues, so there are indeed other planes "affected", in some way, by the heavy development and some of the early code they produced...

 

Yet, all developers still, accept this as a challenge and go on to better their products, enhance existing stuff, even add new features, usually for free.

 

I don't understand the hostility around here to the companies breathing life into our precious hobby?!

Think about it, do you see a company like EA or Ubisoft taking over the sim niche any time soon? Any other alternatives? And you still try to blame, threaten, judge and hate these guys?

 

An interesting strategy. What are these people trying to achieve? Have some of the 3rd parties quit, so we have less planes to learn and keep it "more simple"? :dunno:

Id also like to see companys like Ubisoft and EA feeling a moral responsibility to re-code rework their entire module and do it all without re-charging existing customers. Wouldn't happen.

Id also like to see companys like Ubisoft and EA feeling a moral responsibility to re-code rework their entire module and do it all without re-charging existing customers. Wouldn't happen.

Good point.

Ok, P-40 looks great, getting close now, wonder if we will see some tutorial videos posted soon before release VEAO?

AFAIK, it will be released with a full set of training missions, so there won't be a need for videos too.

However, if Wags works 28 hours a day, 9 days a week, maybe he'll be able to fit that in too?

AFAIK, it will be released with a full set of training missions, so there won't be a need for videos too.

 

However, if Wags works 28 hours a day, 9 days a week, maybe he'll be able to fit that in too?

I do like his videos.....

Maybe draft versions of the P40 manual could be posted up like back in the days just prior to the Hawk release? If that was at all possible it would be really great.

Cheers,

Stonehouse

I would say in my opinion, and I stress it is only an opinion. I believe VEAO are trying to ensure that when this P-40 arrives with us it will be in a much more polished state, I believe they have discussed training tutorials etc. So yes I think they have learned lessons from the past.

 

I would like to mention again, I say again because I have mentioned it many times. I got a chance to try the P-40 at Duxford airshow this year, this was a good 5 or so months a go bear in mind. And this is from someone that has every DCS Module as well. It was superb, admittedly I was also trying it with Oculus Rift, but even so the quality of the visuals, textures 3D modelling. I was seriously impressed. And from the limited flying I have done in light aircraft it was complete immersion I can tell you, I loved it. I gained a serious amount of respect for them as a development team that day. And I feel this module will really show everyone exactly what they are capable of as a developer. You can tell the quality of the cockpit by the screen shots they have posted if you don't take my word for it anyway.

Other third party's may have come and gone but they were never at a stage of charging money from a customer !! The Hawk has had the worst beta stage of any module and the developers know it. Sorry but I think the developers should concentrate on solving the problems with their paid project first before asking to pay for any other module of their making. Seriously this is good business sense !!

Hawk is a great module, everytime there's an update on the module, I give it another try, but feel like it's never completed.

I was hoping to have this module in the final version soon, but now it's like it will worth the coming 6 month wait for a new AFM.

 

I don't know if I'm sad or happy with the newsletter, but at least those guys at VEAO really want to give us the best they can. So go ahead guys show us what you can do ! :thumbup:

Slight correction: VEAO is recoding the ASM for the Hawk. Not the AFM. So systems, not flight model. Just to be clear.

I think lessons were learned on both sides: VEAO has learned how NOT to develop a DCS module, while customers are more wary now of broken products that stay forever in beta with very little support from the dev.

As for myself, I'm fine with waiting for the things mentioned in the newsletter, but I'm not gonna give VEAO any more money before I see a final, feature complete, quality product from them. Be it Hawk, P40 or any other airplane. Not just another beta with promises that they will rework (again) half of it in the next few months.

Other third party's may have come and gone but they were never at a stage of charging money from a customer !! The Hawk has had the worst beta stage of any module and the developers know it. Sorry but I think the developers should concentrate on solving the problems with their paid project first before asking to pay for any other module of their making. Seriously this is good business sense !!

Well that all depends on the state of the P-40 module upon release, if it is a feature complete module that people will enjoy, would you then want them to hold it back from release until they bring the hawk to the same level? For reasons explained the hawk become a test bed module and unintentionally it has ended up being much further behind the P-40 in its development. This is because the team are learning how to develop modules in dcs. If they state the P-40 is in beta when they release it, and don't put a timescale on the beta stage, well I guess you know what you are buying into. This is going over old ground anyway I just want to give these guys a chance to get the P-40 out the doors and show it's a really good module. For them as much as anyone.

I think lessons were learned on both sides: VEAO has learned how NOT to develop a DCS module, while customers are more wary now of broken products that stay forever in beta with very little support from the dev.

 

As for myself, I'm fine with waiting for the things mentioned in the newsletter, but I'm not gonna give VEAO any more money before I see a final, feature complete, quality product from them. Be it Hawk, P40 or any other airplane. Not just another beta with promises that they will rework (again) half of it in the next few months.

There is an easy solution to all this: Read reviews, and do not buy beta-products. Gamers and simmers alike are notoriously bad at jumping on a chance to buy sonething brand new even when there are fully working alternatives.

I know it is a nieche, and we want to support developement, but that does not mean buying everything blind.

On the update itself, Ells, have you discussed plans for releasing info on the Hawks progress during the ASM rework? Might we expect info bits during the las quarter of the year, or will you keep working under the hood silently until the rework is closer to being finished? I would think the P-40 will probably steal the spotlight for the next two months.

Regards,

MikeMikeJuliet

Hmm, is anybody aware, that Aviojet is still coding/recoding their AFM, integrating Dual Cockpit etc.?

 

Not put a blame, just they had similar issues, so there are indeed other planes "affected", in some way, by the heavy development and some of the early code they produced...

 

Yet, all developers still, accept this as a challenge and go on to better their products, enhance existing stuff, even add new features, usually for free.

 

I don't understand the hostility around here to the companies breathing life into our precious hobby?!

Think about it, do you see a company like EA or Ubisoft taking over the sim niche any time soon? Any other alternatives? And you still try to blame, threaten, judge and hate these guys?

 

An interesting strategy. What are these people trying to achieve? Have some of the 3rd parties quit, so we have less planes to learn and keep it "more simple"? :dunno:

Where did the word 'hate' come from ? I have discovered that it was my user error that was at fault, didn't know about the parking brake !! So, long story short. I took the module for a spin in the virtual sky, I don't have to worry about fighting cos I don't fight in the simulator, just fly around and whatnot. First of all the EFM flight model was excellent compared to other modules I have (almost all of them). The 3D model is brilliant, the skins are brilliant and the cockpit is poor. Was it worth buying...yes it was, I don't regret it...well I got it bought as a gift actually. However, it appears there are still issues, maybe not as many as I first thought.

Mizzy

Parking brake.

Thank you

Where did the word 'hate' come from ? I have discovered that it was my user error that was at fault, didn't know about the parking brake !! So, long story short. I took the module for a spin in the virtual sky, I don't have to worry about fighting cos I don't fight in the simulator, just fly around and whatnot. First of all the EFM flight model was excellent compared to other modules I have (almost all of them). The 3D model is brilliant, the skins are brilliant and the cockpit is poor. Was it worth buying...yes it was, I don't regret it...well I got it bought as a gift actually. However, it appears there are still issues, maybe not as many as I first thought.

 

Mizzy

Mizzy I am Not talking about you...

These are normal "ooops" moments, no worries.

I was refering to the accusations, of VEAO "blaming" ED, which Chris obviously did not! And especially at the nonsense, that VEAO is the only third party that has problems.

I agree, they have been hit harder, than most, but it is the nature of complex software development, that things can easily go tits up and need to be fixed, reworked, scrapped or whatever.

On the other side Chris and pman where always very open and honest about their plans, status, and issues.

Beginning with the clear statement "the Hawk will be the testbed, from which we need to learn how to integrate a module into DCS. Expect delays and trouble along the path" and the latest news in post 1 of this thread... No evasion, no marketing blanks, only a phase of very reduced update and information, due to the shit-storms that rolled through these forums.

I would be very happy, if other companies producing Operating Systems, Notebooks, Enterprise Software would be as honest and direct in their communication, especially when it comes to features and issues.

I personally am very happy about the latest news and can easily cope with the wait, for the dual-cockpit an overhaul of the ASM (which was already astonishing) and look forward to it.

Ells talked about the P-40 module verification happenin "very soon" and after that it will be released to the public... Now, I wonder what might "very soon" mean. I take it that we probably have the P-40 in our hands before xmas... most likely before. End of this month? Possible?ish? Maybe?