[FIXED] HARM extremely inaccurate

I've notice that since a couple of patches ago, the HARM is not very accurate.

Is this a bug or are there other factors I'm not considering when launching?

I dont know, cause I dont know their hit percentage in real life. I was shooting at various SA-3, 6 and 11 sites last night. Some sites were isolated, others close to another type or close to a EWR. Id say about 2 in 3 hit their mark, and the last 1/3 went wild, and went for a EWR or some other SAM site further away - could be fairly far away.

Felt ok, with some margin of error, instead of a sure hit no matter what.

There is a bug that the HARM goes for the closest radiation source rather than the one you "lock on to":

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=240535

That may be what you are experiencing. Keep in mind HARMs won't hit 100%, especially if the radiation source stops emitting. But that bug may be what you are seeing.

In the Wild Weasle book, admittedly using F-4’s, there were a few mentions of firing multiple missiles at targets for various reasons.

There is a bug that the HARM goes for the closest radiation source rather than the one you "lock on to":

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=240535

 

 

That may be what you are experiencing. Keep in mind HARMs won't hit 100%, especially if the radiation source stops emitting. But that bug may be what you are seeing.

Yea I think thats it. I fired a bunch more just now, and it would consistently go for the closest source, no matter the source. Like snatch a OSA-8 that was parked some 500m in front of (in the direction of the HARM missile) a SA-6 site (that was active and tracking). OSA-8 wasnt even showing up in HARM display (I was launching in TOO) at the time of launch, so it just grabbed it along the way.

I could do the same with a EWR and SA-3 site, depending on my approach direction. In this case, if I was approaching from the north, it would pick the EWR, and if I came in from the south or west, it would grab the SA-3 (which I had selected). They were pretty much north/south of each other with a 5nm seperation.

I of course have no idea if this is correct or not, if its just a question of the HARM going for a strongest source, that varies along the way. I dont mind though. Adds an element of planning, instead of just selecting a source, and there is a 100% hit accuracy if the source isnt obstructed by trees etc.

All my attempts was in TOO

In the Wild Weasle book, admittedly using F-4’s, there were a few mentions of firing multiple missiles at targets for various reasons.

It's been pretty standard doctrine since Vietnam for defenders to switch off the radars when SEAD aircraft are around / have launched ARMs - with missiles without an INS like the 88C when the radar is off they lose track and miss. In Bosnia they fired something like 800 HARMs and barely hit anything because the crews were well trained and switched the radars off. Newer versions of the HARM have an INS (and in-game the Kh58s have it) so if the radar is switched off they still hit the last location. The in-game AI don't switch the radar off - probably won't do that autonomously until we get the new IADS AI that was mentioned in the newsletter - so it's not really possible to compare real life with DCS.

Assuming the radar is left on, and assuming we're not modelling missile malfunctions (which isn't modelled for anything else), the HARM should hit - the seeker should seek to the radar.

The in-game AI don't switch the radar off - probably won't do that autonomously until we get the new IADS AI that was mentioned in the newsletter - so it's not really possible to compare real life with DCS.

It's possible to achieve that fairly easily with triggers though. Group AI on and off.

It's possible to achieve that fairly easily with triggers though. Group AI on and off.

There is a good Integrated Air Defense Script too. Ive been using that.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=118175

Neat. Does it work in mp?

It's possible to achieve that fairly easily with triggers though. Group AI on and off.

Yep, just doesn't do it unless you specifically program it to. If people are just chucking a SAM system into the mission editor and throwing a HARM at it, the AI won't switch the radar off. There seems to be some confusion over whether HARMs should be naturally inaccurate and if that's what ED are trying to model - but instead I think they *should* be reliably hitting the targets (if the radars aren't switched off) and it looks like some guidance bugs were introduced when ED started looking at PB mode. It makes sense that it's just new bugs introduced, as in that mode they're launched without a lock and then try to pick up the nearest source when they switch on at the waypoint (which is basically what we're seeing, just from launch in the wrong mode!).

Yep, just doesn't do it unless you specifically program it to. If people are just chucking a SAM system into the mission editor and throwing a HARM at it, the AI won't switch the radar off. There seems to be some confusion over whether HARMs should be naturally inaccurate and if that's what ED are trying to model - but instead I think they *should* be reliably hitting the targets (if the radars aren't switched off) and it looks like some guidance bugs were introduced when ED started looking at PB mode. It makes sense that it's just new bugs introduced, as in that mode they're launched without a lock and then try to pick up the nearest source when they switch on at the waypoint (which is basically what we're seeing, just from launch in the wrong mode!).

As for the PB mode, you still select the emitter type that the missile should look for. At some point during its flight, the missile will turn on its sensor and look for the specific emission and if it doesn't detect it, it'll fly to the programmed coordinates. AFAIK it shouldn't home in on anything else. Either it finds what it's looking for or it flies to the programmed impact point.

Maybe there's an option to allow homing to any emitter, but if the pilot specifies a type, the above should apply.

[...]

As for the PB mode, you still select the emitter type that the missile should look for. At some point during its flight, the missile will turn on its sensor and look for the specific emission and if it doesn't detect it, it'll fly to the programmed coordinates. AFAIK it shouldn't home in on anything else. Either it finds what it's looking for or it flies to the programmed impact point.

Maybe there's an option to allow homing to any emitter, but if the pilot specifies a type, the above should apply.

Thats also how I understand PB to function. With one difference though. IIRC when the HARM‘s sensor doesn‘t detect the pre-briefed (i.e. pre-programmed) type of emitter when it opens its eyes, I think it will go after another emitter within its FOV instead of flying to the location of the PB target. If there are multiple other emitters it will prioritize the one which is deemed the highest threat.

Disclaimer, just woke up and drinking coffee, have done no research... Yesterday taking on a sa-15/tor it was mobile and it seems the Harm impacts at the point of original Lock on tgt. So i assume it cant get a moving tgt? Or is this a result of its in accuracy

HARM (RL), is for fixed targets only.

..

HARM (RL), is for fixed targets only.

..

Tell that to B-52 pilots...

I'm gonna need your source on this.

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-88.htm

..

Whether intended for moving targets or not, the HARM should still attempt to track the emitter, if it detects it.

Not to mention that mobile SAMs are not supposed to track and shoot on the move, either, but they do in the game.

edit: I tried HARM against moving Tor, and they do guide. If the Tor turns or stops or starts when the missile is close, the missile might not be able to adjust in time. (latest stable, SP mode)

Disclaimer, just woke up and drinking coffee, have done no research... [...]

ROFL, best intro to a post I‘ve seen for a long time :lol::thumbup:

Also keep in mind that the HARM can only track on a radar when it emits in the direction of the missile.

So if you launch a harm on a tracking radar and make sure it keeps emitting on you while the HARM is on its way, its constant pulses should ensure good guidance and a hit. On the other hand, if you imagine a search radar that takes 5 seconds per rotation... that's one update every 5 seconds.

I remember* observing a HARM doing course corrections every 1.0 seconds or so.

*human memory and all that

Moved.

..

Thats also how I understand PB to function. With one difference though. IIRC when the HARM‘s sensor doesn‘t detect the pre-briefed (i.e. pre-programmed) type of emitter when it opens its eyes, I think it will go after another emitter within its FOV instead of flying to the location of the PB target. If there are multiple other emitters it will prioritize the one which is deemed the highest threat.

Everything I say after this point is pure speculation, but wouldn't that be a little dangerous? What if the HARM inadvertently homes in on a radar it's not supposed to (like the B-52 incident)?

In my view, behavior after not finding its indented emitter should be pilot-selectable. Either it flies to the coordinates (because maybe the radar operator turned it off) or searches for other signals, based on what option the pilot has specified. I don't know if that's an option IRL though, to be honest.

But isn't one of the PB mode's advantages that it can still hit where it's supposed to, even if the radar turns off to avoid detection?

Since the last patch fixing the HAARM loft, my AGMs are right on the money. It's important to point the plane (aka sensor) at the direction of the threat before launch. HAARM is usually always going to go for the strongest radiation source within reason (friendly or not).

Hi,

I have the same issue with a mission I have made based on the 476th group in NTTR.

HARM always goes to the closest emitter, not the one selected.

Tested with the stable version 2.5.4.30386.

Hi,

 

I have the same issue with a mission I have made based on the 476th group in NTTR.

 

HARM always goes to the closest emitter, not the one selected.

 

Tested with the stable version 2.5.4.30386.