not planned I want to see more low-fidelity aircraft, and here’s why

Personally, I’m just getting into DCS World after having avoided it for many years. I first discovered it when I found DCS: Black Shark 1 while searching for flight sims I wanted to try as a youngster, but I didn’t buy it, and I’m glad I didn’t do so at the time - I certainly didn’t have the patience to play any flight sim properly in my days as a teenager. Now, however, I’ve picked up DCS World and intend to purchase the Flaming Cliffs, A-10C and Black Shark 2 modules during the summer sale on Steam.

However, I’ve quickly come to realize that the DCS series is, for the most part, all about them ‘study sims’, which is arguably it’s greatest strength as a franchise. And yet, this also becomes it’s one of it’s greatest weaknesses as well. Why? Let me explain a bit, hopefully before the poo flinging starts. :D

I’m not saying that there’s anything wrong with DCS focusing on high-fidelity aircraft models that allow pilots to operate their virtual aircraft exactly like a real-life pilot would, far from it. That kind of fidelity and attention to detail is great and really inspiring, and there is obviously a real sense of accomplishment when you master an aircraft. The problem, is that that kind of mastery takes time and effort, two things which some people don’t have or aren’t interested in, and that’s fine too. There’s also the fact that the human mind can only retain so much information, and it often requires constant practice to do so effectively. Since each aircraft takes a large amount of time to master (or even just learn how to use it relatively effectively), many prospective players may only buy one or two modules and leave it at that, since they won’t have the time or patience for more. Not only that, but there is definitely a market out there for simmers who just want to pick up a combat sim and spend a weekend blowing things up and generally just having fun during their small bit of downtime, but DCS can’t really cater to them and thus they avoid it altogether. Considering that DCS is an excellent game, and one of the only modern combat flight sims focused on the modern era currently still supported, that doesn’t sound like something I want to hear.

Flaming Cliffs is probably one of the first modules a new player should buy, and for several reasons. For one, the aircraft contained within are easy to use, and can be good for new player to earn their wings with. Not only that, but FC3 is one of the most cost-effective packs when it comes to acquiring aircraft. While a single, high-fidelity airplane like the Mirage 2000C can cost anywhere from $50 to now even $80 for the Hornet, FC3 gives a player five different aircraft to play with for the same price as a single high-fidelity model. And not only that, but the aircraft provided are easier to use, something that encourages the player to fly a larger number of aircraft, which could, in turn, encourage them to buy more modules and thereby increase the profits of ED and its associates. Making more low-fidelity aircraft for the game would be a sound business decision - more modules would be sold, and a wider player base would be created as more casual simmers are drawn into the fold, possibly to move on and become study simmers once they find the time and motivation.

Another thing I’d like to see, desperately so, is for aircraft developers to build in and/or retrofit ‘easy modes’ into high fidelity aircraft modules - kind of like what ED did with the Ka-50. This would make each aircraft released available and attractive to both study-simmers and Sunday simmers, increasing profits and thereby driving the creation of more content for the game as a whole. There’s nothing wrong with that, is there?

To make a long story short, I’d really like to see the developers add a number of brand new low-fidelity aircraft to the franchise, alongside ‘easy-mode’ setups for all of the current and future high-fidelity aircraft modules. That way the game becomes more accessible for those who want a less intensive/in-depth simulation, and making much easier for many of us to pick up and enjoy a wider selection of aircraft modules. :thumbup:

That's pretty well said. I have waited years and I mean years for a decent FA18. DCS delivered and it is still a work in progress. However, my first experience with ED was Flanker 2.0. Even back in the day that game we all bought in CD format at software stores. And through all of this new technology and upgraded DCS worlds I find I am still so impressed with the simplicity and fun of the Mig 29 and the SU series in Flaming cliffs.

I have learned about Russian pilots and Russian fighter jets and I admire them so much. I am an American but so what. "?" I think Russian Pilots are very impressive. I wish DCS would create a Mig 35 and more advanced MIG and SU series with variable thrust vectors!

I really enjoy the textures of the Mig or SU in 2.5 Beta.

I am waiting for more of the Hornet's weapons to be developed and it now seems lie Ihave the best of both worlds.

I sort of feel the way you do I think.

Actually, the hifi aircraft I have don’t technically require mousing the switches or complicated procedures...the F5 for example can be cold started with LShift+home. The radar, guns, landing gear etc can all be done with the keyboard.

You’re right though, the hifi ones definitely take some skill. But then again, isn’t there a “game” mode?

-1

There is a Game Mode already.

And other “simming” options as well.

Nice to hear some opinions, guys!

That's pretty well said. I have waited years and I mean years for a decent FA18.

Thanks! I also love the F/A-18, and I fully intend to buy the Hornet pack once I save up the money for it. Probably one of the few aircraft, aside from the Black Shark and upcoming Tomcat, that I really want to take on the task of learning to the full extent.

Actually, the hifi aircraft I have don’t technically require mousing the switches or complicated procedures...

I think the complexity varies a bit from plane to plane, but the quick-start function is a very useful way to simplify the learning curve for an aircraft, I will agree. And being able to use keyboard bindings can certainly make things easier on a player, but it would be nice to see a way to fly an aircraft with the avionics simplified for less skilled players.

There is a Game Mode already.

And other “simming” options as well.

I do know about the game mode for the Ka-50, and I think the A-10C has one as well, but those are the only ones I know of, sinc the other aircraft modules do not advertise sucha feature. As far as I'm aware, the other hi-fi aircraft not made by ED (such as the Viggen or Mirage) do not have any such feature, and that is something I'd like to see corrected. Of course, I have never played these other modules, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

In addition, I am not sure what you mean by other sim options. I know that there are other sims out there, of course there are. Falcon BMS is another seemingly popular choice, but it's a seriously hardcore study sim and has a very limited selection of flyable aircraft. The Il-2 games are popular as well and apparently have options to make the game less intense/easier to play, but they focus on the WW2 era, and not the modern era like DCS does. I have not heard of any other combat sims that focus on the modern era that are still supported by an official company during my research - as far as I'm aware, DCS is one of (if not the only) such games in town, and as a result I'd like to see the game expanded to accommodate a wider selection of player types and skill levels.

Personally I am tired of dev's dumbing down games, they have become extremely boring, and attract the type of gamers you would not want to introduce to your family or your dog. The only game I play anymore is DCS because it's still challenging in many ways, also the community is pretty intelligent, although community is not what it used to be, but it's still ok.

The other worry is that if ED decided to make dumbed down versions, I have feeling the high fidelity ones would suffer. That's my two cents on the subject.

I can appreciate that DCS is a platform, so people want more stuff in it, but it's entire Unique-Selling-Point compared to other sims is the high fidelity modules.

Adding more lofi modules is stepping away from that, and that's the thing that other sims arguably do better currently, or at least offer more ancillary features.

It's why I think the new proposed FC4 is a severe misstep. New lofi aircraft that realistically won't be hifi ever/for a long time, is palatable. Dumbing down existing hifi modules is just terrible, and again, pushes the sim into competition with others.

Low Fi aircraft are necessary to fill out the roster of flyable planes. Without FC3 there would have been no Air to Air action in DCS.

I hesitated long to try to fly a plane in DCS. I do not have much time besides my job and was dazzled by all the complexity. But then 10 minutes with the Oculus Rift and I was sold. I Started with the low fidelity models and then tried the A-10C. I used auto startup, as I kept forgetting how to do that manually. Happens, if you have 1h per week for DCS. But, the flight model was such a big difference. The A-10C has a very unique character. Now I only use auto start.

I almost completely stopped using low fidelity models. I mostly fly f-18, m-2000, viggen, a-10c. I might go back to the ww2 models, now that the AI can be shot down. I deffinetely will try the f-14. it probably will be again a very characteristic model to fly.

So, to me, there is no need to dumb down models, but it’s also not a problem for me, as I do not fly online.

I could imagine that some day, when we have more models to pic and choose from, online servers will split into two categories high/low fidelity model servers. The more people will play DCS, the more resources can be invested in this very unique platform.

I only fly high-fidelity aircraft, but I wouldn't mind seeing more low-fidelity aircraft. However, I do have one concern;

As seen in the past, no FC3 aircraft have been brought up or developed to high fidelity due to many reasons, not the least of which is the inability to access the technology for some FC3 aircraft.

My concern is that ED would develop a FC4 aircraft that they had the ability to model in high fidelity. If that were the case, I would want them to develop two versions, a FC4 version, and a high-fidelity version, and that simply does not seem reasonable.

I would hope that they follow the most logical course of action, which, to me, would be to only model FC4 aircraft that cannot be modeled in high-fidelity due to security restrictions and/or available data. That way, an aircraft that has the potential of being high fidelity won't be, for lack of a better word, "wasted" on a simplified aircraft.

Just my two cents.

I only fly high-fidelity aircraft, but I wouldn't mind seeing more low-fidelity aircraft. However, I do have one concern;

 

 

As seen in the past, no FC3 aircraft have been brought up or developed to high fidelity due to many reasons, not the least of which is the inability to access the technology for some FC3 aircraft.

F-15

After actually looking up some info on what FC4 actually is (since I had not heard about until now), I have to say that this is something I like. Granted, I can understand that some people won't like it, but I know there are people like me who will, and that's what ED wants.

While developing an FC3 level version of an existing module will take time and effort, it will probably not be nearly as time consuming or resource demanding as creating an entirely new aircraft would be. After all, the flight model (which will happily be a PFM) is already there, and so are the avionics systems and the modeling work. With all of that already there, the developers simply need to take the data and streamline it to fit the desired end result, which is, hopefully, far less demanding and time consuming than the research and development work required for an entirely new airframe.

There's also the fact that this approach will open up a wider selection of aircraft to players who are just coming into DCS, and flight sims in general. Even better, there will probably be an increased likelihood that after experiencing the simplified aircraft, they will choose to purchase the more in-depth version after gaining the confidence to try and dig deeper into the sim's capabilities.

Personally, I really hope to see the Hornet make it into the FC4 module; I intend to buy into the hi-fi Hornet module either way, since I think it's going to be one of my favorite aircraft in the DCS World franchise, but it would be great to see a simplified version I can take out for a spin whenever I don't feel up to managing all the systems of the current module. There's also the fact that the Hornet is the only real multi-role airframe currently available in the game, and I think that makes it an excellent choice for an FC3 module - it gives players a plane that can do almost anything, and therefore provides more bang for the buyers buck since they can do both a2a and a2g effectively with a single plane.

EDIT: There's also the fact that such a module will give experienced players a wider variety of aircraft they can fly. After all, it can be hard to learn more than one hi-fi aircraft enough to truly feel comfortable in it all the time, and simplified aircraft allow a player to fly a wide variety of aircraft with different performance values and quirks while avoiding some of the complexity of memorizing all the controls for multiple hi-fi aircraft.

complex system management is part of the pilot job description.

so if you abstract the complex systems into simple systems.

do you end up with low fidelity simple pilots?

and the answer is yes if you look at warchunder

My opinion (and fear) is that if the LF models are a big success that they may concentrate all development in that direction in search of the quickest profit. Of course this might be unfounded and would draw in people who would then "want more" and purchase the HF modules.

My opinion (and fear) is that if the LF models are a big success that they may concentrate all development in that direction in search of the quickest profit. Of course this might be unfounded and would draw in people who would then "want more" and purchase the HF modules.

We all have dreams and in this case it seems that lofi models can help the developers to fulfill their dream. Which seems to be, making hifi study modules of actual A/C. Not everybody is driven by money, but we all need it to provide for ourself and our family.

I wouldn't worry too much. :)

"i want my simulator to be less realistic"

i will never understand this opinion

Low fidelity models will never be a big success and change the development direction of DCS. They are a very low cost entry level drug. Eventually you will want to fly the real thing.

There is game mode in DCS and there is Warthunder. Having said that, FC4 is a fact (almost), I just hope it's seriously dumbed down/limited, considering that it will contain versions of existing hi-fi modules. By seriously dumbed down I mean 2-3 the same systems max across all airplanes and one simple weapon load for all of them. I don't want Fc4 planes to be anywhere close to their hi-fi counterparts.

I get the sentiment and reasoning of the OP, believe me I do, but ultimately I feel it's not a good idea.

I bought the original Lock On and then also Flaming Cliffs 2 and 3. I barely touched them due to firing them up and then getting overwhelmed with the complexity compared to what I was used to. I seriously had both of these games for 14 years and never really touched them. I just knew that I loved military aircraft and would eventually get around to learning them. I bought the F-5 a few years ago and same thing. Opened up DCS and got immediately felt overwhelmed by it and then shelved it. I have cognitive issues from multiple sclerosis so that doesn't help either.

I flew a bunch of War Thunder sim mode the last few years but then decided about two weeks ago that I wanted to see what the best simulation available had to offer, so I made some time to finally bear down and wrap my brain around the F-5.

I'm amazed, absolutely stunned at what I've been missing. I've bought the Mig-21, 15 and M2000C + NTTR during the sale. It's a whole new world of simming enjoyment and I wish I had not of waited so long.

I find I could get the new aircraft I bought up and running enough (in sim mode, not game) to take-off and then shoot down a transport plane inside of a half-hour of purchase. That's due to me bearing down and learning the basics of the F-5, I'm sure, as the basics translate across different airframes for the most part. Now I am working on radio use and navigation. I'm having a blast. It's probably really good for my MS because any type of a cognitive challenge will stimulate new connections within the brain and thereby hopefully aid in healing a bit. That's my excuse for flying a bunch of DCS but there's likely some truth to it.

Now I look at the FC3 aircraft I have and never flew and am just not as excited to try them out, knowing they aren't full fidelity like the new modules I have.

I love the fact that I can study the planes and continually get better with them as a result. It feels like I've got endless replay value due to the complexity, there's always more to learn. I take notes, I study the flight manuals and I practice.

It's extremely fun and rewarding. But I do understand the OP's point of view. I guess I've just jumped over to the other side and am love with deep simulation now.

Chris

There is game mode in DCS and there is Warthunder. Having said that, FC4 is a fact (almost), I just hope it's seriously dumbed down/limited, considering that it will contain versions of existing hi-fi modules. By seriously dumbed down I mean 2-3 the same systems max across all airplanes and one simple weapon load for all of them. I don't want Fc4 planes to be anywhere close to their hi-fi counterparts.

They will be exactly like the FC3 planes, SURPRISE. In other words, they'll use the flight model of the main module (AFM/PFM, just like all the other aircraft in the game at this point) with a simplified interface for the remaining systems. I.E. they will have radar, RWR, countermeasures, their appropriate compatible weaponry, etc.

What's hard to understand about how it's going to be? It will be exactly like A-10A vs A-10C, F-15C vs F-15E. Pretty straightforward to understand, people.

@cmorris

The primary difference is you clicking the cockpit or not, and tertiary systems like adv nav capability, complicated radios, and more thoroughly modeled "internal systems". That's your "Full fidelity". While interesting, and what I prefer to interact with, not having those systems does not significantly detract from the aircraft. If you never flew or messed with them, you should. The main "systems of interest" are there as far as what's relevant for combat. They have full modeled PFMs (effectively a virtual wind tunnel) so they fly and behave exactly like the real thing. If it's not your cup of tea, fine, I too prefer full modules, but they're not THAT bad, and certainly not nearly as significant as some of the hardcore detractors make it sound.

The key systems are there and modeled, you just aren't interacting with them. For example, instead of flipping 6-10 switches and taking ten minutes to start the engines, you press three buttons and don't have to wait for the INS to align. Those systems are still there, though.

That is good to know, Zhukov. I think I was under the impression that some of the planes in Flaming Cliffs had simplified flight models but they've probably been redone by now. I'll have to give the FC planes some time then, should be fun.

Have to admit I'd rather have the option to flick the switches and click the buttons though! Maybe someday they will redo those aircraft in the clickable cockpit standard.

I am one of those who prefers a detailed study sim. with real world flight model, and systems. The break in period takes me longer, as I have a career to look after.

What I would to see from ED and their partners is LOD style flight model for a given AI aircraft. Especially if that AI unit is a type that possesses an PFM. For adversaries far away, from player's flight a simple A-> B transform flight model. As adversary and player get closer prior to merge, advanced or professional flight model takes over. This applies to enemy aircraft engaged by blue team's missiles. PFM is turned on for targeted unit.

So a player F/A-18C , or any PFM enabled type,fighting AI SU-27 has a more accurate experience. SU-27 inclose guns range or WVR (less then 10 nm in DCS) AI wpuld use PFM. Farther then 10nm, AI SU-27 would switch standard flight model. Farther then 20nm AI Flanker would use simplest possible model.

For everyone thinking FC3 level aircraft make things easier to learn:

- Aircraft is less than 20% of the knowledge required. Dogfighting, BVR, 1v1, 2v2, A2G, 9 line and all that stuff isn't made easier in FC3 modules.

- Dirty start-up of the mirage is 3 buttons, and at least you don't have to spend 30 minutes to map all functions.

I saw too many new players buying FC3 only to be disappointed when they realized they'll have to get the credit card out again to have clickable cockpit and important tools like bullseye ...

There is:

a - Other games for you to play

b - Game of DCS itself.

DCS mainly catered, at least so far, to a different kind of players, who has precious few options for hardcore high fidelity sims.

Just a few point to add:

1) Currently the very best flight models of any aircraft in DCS World are the F-15C and Su-27. Both have, as I understand it, been signed off by real world pilots. Both are obviously FC3 aircraft. I can imagine that when complete the F/A-18 may be as detailed if not more so, but there's nothing wrong with FC3 PFM's.

2) Let's also not forget that for the foreseeable future FC3 will be the only way for us to get some cockpit time in the Russian aircraft. This is a big deal for those of us who came to DCS, or Lock On as it was back then, because it offered something other than teen series fighters or offered a guestimate of how the F-22 would fly and behave. As it is now DCS World and FC3 specifically is the only place to fly an Su-27 or MiG-29S (I'm not counting Xplane as it quite obviously isn't a combat sim).

FC-level aircraft still have great value and a purpose. Not only for the above but for the simple reason that FC3 should probably be everyone's first module, so new players can see if they're going to like a certain general type of aircraft before they make what could be an expensive mistake.