INS Alignment procedure (draft)

+1

 

While DCS is definitely not a tournament or esports game or anything similar, it is a flight sim and as such should stick to realism. Unbalanced gameplay in DCS should be a result of realism and not because some people prefer to use arcade mode or other unrealistic cheats. Really not happy with RAZBAMs policy on this :(

As Razbam keeps it an option, it is absolutely in line with ED's design of DCS to tailor it from arcade to hardcore sim depending on individual customer preference. :)

I don’t want to sound like a killjoy ...

+1

 

While DCS is definitely ...

I thought that was up to the missions designers, just like in the Mirage?

Besides, we don't even have this yet. Could we wait to get it, see how it is implemented before we complain about how it is "implemented"?

The problem here is, that DCS is also about allowing to tailor the gameplay to your preferences. The majority of customers never have visited a multiplayer server. The option to play "arcade mode" may seems like a sacrilege to us hardcore simulation fans, but the reality outside our personal preference is a lot more diverse.

 

As Razbam keeps it an option, it is absolutely in line with ED's design of DCS to tailor it from arcade to hardcore sim depending on individual customer preference. :)

ED does not offer this cheat for their modules! I don't care what people do in SP, but in MP such cheats should not be available.

I thought that was up to the missions designers, just like in the Mirage?

 

Besides, we don't even have this yet. Could we wait to get it, see how it is implemented before we complain about how it is "implemented"?

I'm pretty sure it will be implemented just like it is for the Mirage.

ED does not offer this cheat for their modules! I don't care what people do in SP, but in MP such cheats should not be available.

 

 

I'm pretty sure it will be implemented just like it is for the Mirage.

The WWII fighters have auto rudder and take-off assist "cheats".

As with these options the alignment is another optional tweak grown up people can decide to use, or not.

EDIT: forgot to mention " self tuning and configuring radios" and mystic voices giving you hints...

ED offers Arcade-Mode cheats for ALL modules with 360° radar magic even for the Huey or WWII fighters.

The WWII fighters have auto rudder and take-off assist "cheats".

As with these options the alignment is another optional tweak grown up people can decide to use, or not.

 

EDIT: forgot to mention " self tuning and configuring radios" and mystic voices giving you hints...

I was talking about the INS alignment cheat in Sim Mode. Only RAZBAM does that!

I was talking about the INS alignment cheat in Sim Mode. Only RAZBAM does that!

And the Radio assist also

Anyway, if you don't like it, don't use it...

Just to be very clear, I personally don't look forward to use it, I am very happy with the realistic alignment, especially the detailed modeling of degraded alignments with no GPS etc.

What I don't like is a couple guys advocating "EDs intentions" in their own favor to get what they want.

If you don't like the feature, say so. If YOU want it removed, well, say so and explain your arguments and reason behind it.

But please do not impose as the "guardians of Eagle Dynamics intentions and wishes".

It is and will be about your personal preference. ;)

Nonsense... The Auto-Rudder and Take Off assist work in sim mode as well, as in Arcade mode.

True, but they are much less of a problem as they don't give users an advantage that can't be achieved manually (by beeing skilled with the rudders) unlike INS alignment, which can not be skipped, no matter how skilled you are.

Anyway, if you don't like it, don't use it...

Yeah, I don't, but tell that other players in versus-MP...

Just to be very clear, I personally don't look forward to use it, I am very happy with the realistic alignment, especially the detailed modeling of degraded alignments with no GPS etc.

What I don't like is a couple guys advocating "EDs intentions" in their own favor to get what they want.

 

If you don't like the feature, say so. If YOU want it removed, well, say so and explain your arguments and reason behind it.

 

But please do not impose as the "guardians of Eagle Dynamics intentions and wishes".

 

It is and will be about your personal preference.

My intentions are fairplay in MP. As I said before: I don't care what people do in SP.

My intentions are fairplay in MP. As I said before: I don't care what people do in SP.

And here is the problem, you dont care for 90+x % of the customers. Who you wan't to see happy from the salesman side?

Btw, great INS implementation Razbam :thumbup:

Looking foward.

True, but they are much less of a problem as they don't give users an advantage that can't be achieved manually (by beeing skilled with the rudders) unlike INS alignment, which can not be skipped, no matter how skilled you are.

 

 

Yeah, I don't, but tell that other players in versus-MP...

 

 

My intentions are fairplay in MP. As I said before: I don't care what people do in SP.

As with the alignment on the Mirage, it is the job of the mission designer to make a fair and realistic Multiplayer mission, so he should deactivate that option.

A campaign builder may find it necessary to assure a non-drifting INS for the progression of a campaign mission and not breaking the storyline.

I would be upset if this was mandatory, but as an option... It simply gives newcomers and starters an option to enjoy DCS, even when they don't have the years of experience.

As long as it can be managed, fine with me. It helps in peaking interest in Simulations for people coming from far simpler games, without spoiling the experience for everyone.

Just to be very clear, I personally don't look forward to use it, I am very happy with the realistic alignment, especially the detailed modeling of degraded alignments with no GPS etc.

What I don't like is a couple guys advocating "EDs intentions" in their own favor to get what they want.

 

If you don't like the feature, say so. If YOU want it removed, well, say so and explain your arguments and reason behind it.

 

But please do not impose as the "guardians of Eagle Dynamics intentions and wishes".

 

It is and will be about your personal preference. ;)

A10C doesn't have it nor F18 at this point. I wouldn't have a problem if it was an additional option in the server settings but the default option allows this, so the better compromise is to have it the other way around with the mission makers willingly making the choice to allow this.

I wonder how you would feel with instant radar operation or maverick zero cool time which should be also allowed then.

Also this is a simulator and if people think waiting for the ins to align is a waste of time for no lifers should really look the word simulator up in a dictionary.

Also auto rudder and take off assist might cater for some people who don't have rudder pedals what does insta align cater for? People with no patience?

Also auto rudder and take off assist might cater for some people who don't have rudder pedals what does insta align cater for? People with no patience?

I am sure Razbam implemented it in the Mirage 2000C specifically to piss of you and the few dozen other customers who think this is a problem... Or they had a larger group of non hardcore simmers in mind?! The couple thousands of people buying DCS for their personal enjoyment, maybe?

That basically is a pretty big customer base...

And ED chose not to implement such a thing (or allow any sort of shortcut) for the negligable minority of the hardcore simmers much to the dismay of the bigger casual player base it appears. Odd indeed.

And ED chose not to implement such a thing (or allow any sort of shortcut) for the negligable minority of the hardcore simmers much to the dismay of the bigger casual player base it appears. Odd indeed.

The alignment phase is also synching INS to GPS. There basically was no need for that. As the A-10C does not have a radar, it cannot do a radar fix for a drifted INS anyway.

With the Mirage Razbam introduced INS as a primary source and drift and radar position fix was introduced, together with the option to have it proper aligned and not drifting, with it.

Consequently they give us the option in their next plane, as well.

The funny thing is, the time aspect of the alignment is no problem anyway, as while you align you still need to do more stuff and preparation than the alignment takes.

Last but not least, stop implying to know what ED had in mind by implementing or not implementing features, as you are simply speculating to make up an argument in your favor.

It is about you not happy with the feature, nothing else.

Edit: I am also pretty sure the menu is an integral part of DCS and ED is very aware of the options that are made available. So they pretty much deliberately (on purpose) allowed that feature into the DCS Menu.

No option to start with a memory alignment and drift?

No option to start with a memory alignment and drift?

Not really, the A-10C EGI was from the start implemented without issues of a drift error.

The alignment phase is also synching INS to GPS. There basically was no need for that. As the A-10C does not have a radar, it cannot do a radar fix for a drifted INS anyway.

With the Mirage Razbam introduced INS as a primary source and drift and radar position fix was introduced, together with the option to have it proper aligned and not drifting, with it.

Consequently they give us the option in their next plane, as well.

 

The funny thing is, the time aspect of the alignment is no problem anyway, as while you align you still need to do more stuff and preparation than the alignment takes.

 

Last but not least, stop implying to know what ED had in mind by implementing or not implementing features, as you are simply speculating to make up an argument in your favor.

 

It is about you not happy with the feature, nothing else.

 

Edit: I am also pretty sure the menu is an integral part of DCS and ED is very aware of the options that are made available. So they pretty much deliberately (on purpose) allowed that feature into the DCS Menu.

I am pretty sure it was put there so people could avoid the 7 min alignment process and no other reason.

I am perfectly aware how ins and ins gps works and ins needs time to align and drifts . All else is cheating. Period.

And please stop calling realism shortcuts features.

Maybe a moderator can split this thread from the AV8B INS thread?

I am pretty sure it was put there so people could avoid the 7 min alignment process and no other reason.

I am perfectly aware how ins and ins gps works and ins needs time to align and drifts . All else is cheating. Period.

And please stop calling realism shortcuts features.

Maybe a moderator can split this thread from the AV8B INS thread?

I am one of the more hardcore for realism but I think the right decision was to leave it to the mission designers. Any of your hardcore multiplayer servers would have the always aligned option disabled. But newbie events, aerobatic servers, and single player are fine to use it. I sometimes turn on the "cheat" because on my 4th mission of the day I don't want to align the stupid INS for 8 minutes again in single player. That's a half hour of pretty much nothing in the Mirage. The A-10 wouldn't need the "cheat" anyway because by the time you get everything else set up it's already done anyway. You shouldn't be able to do it in Blue Flag or similar servers but there's a lot of other reasons and places it isn't a big deal.

I am pretty sure it was put there so people could avoid the 7 min alignment process and no other reason.

I am perfectly aware how ins and ins gps works and ins needs time to align and drifts . All else is cheating. Period.

And please stop calling realism shortcuts features.

Maybe a moderator can split this thread from the AV8B INS thread?

A feature/option is implemented by the developers for use by the customer as he prefers.

You may not like a feature like the Arcade avionics, the INS pre-alignment, or by your definition even the F10 map CTRL+F11 Satellite "Spy View", padlock-view, the precise position markers in the kneeboard, and so on.

All these are features to shape the DCS experience to your personal liking.

Eagle Dynamics is even advertising(!) this on the website and in the cover of DVDs of their products...

It still is your personal preference you want to enforce, by telling us your preferrence is exactly the intentions of Eagle Dynamics and that simply isn't true.

No Go for me. How does that work again?

1. Make sure that the INS mode selector knob is in the OFF position.

CHECK

2. Select EHSD on the MPCD (Left or Right).

CHECK

3. Select DATA on the MPCD

NO-GO There is no DATA option . Tried it on both screens.

All I get when INS is OFF on EHSD page is a a airplane icon in the middle, Menu on btn 18, and DEG/ on btn 16.

4. Select AC on the MPCD.

NO-GO There is no AC option.

Are you sure this is how its supposed to be? What am I missing here.

My version is latest 2.5.2.02 something, where there is change is Betty voice

a. Aircraft present position will be shown.

b. UFC/ODU will enter into Aircraft Position mode.

NO-GO ODU is dark, tjhere are no options.

c. ODU options are:

i. Option 1: POS (Lat/Lon position coordinates).

ii. Option 2: MVAR (Local magnetic variation).

iii. Option 3: WIND (Wind Direction and speed).

iv. Option 4: BLANK

v. Option 5: BLANK

5. Enter AC present position (lat/lon).

6. Enter local magnetic variation (MVAR) if the value shown is 0

7. Place the INS mode selector knob in the selected alignment mode: SEA, GND, IFA or GYRO. The alignment process will start immediately IF THE REQUIRED INFORMATION IS PRESENT.

8. When alignment is finished, place the INS mode selector knob either in NAV or IFA (for GPS coupled navigation).

1. Make sure that the INS mode selector knob is in the OFF position.

CHECK

2. Select EHSD on the MPCD (Left or Right).

CHECK

3. Select DATA on the MPCD

NO-GO There is no DATA option . Tried it on both screens.

All I get when INS is OFF on EHSD page is a a airplane icon in the middle, Menu on btn 18, and DEG/ on btn 16.

4. Select AC on the MPCD.

NO-GO There is no AC option.

 

Are you sure this is how its supposed to be? What am I missing here.

My version is latest 2.5.2.02 something, where there is change is Betty voice

 

a. Aircraft present position will be shown.

b. UFC/ODU will enter into Aircraft Position mode.

NO-GO ODU is dark, tjhere are no options.

c. ODU options are:

i. Option 1: POS (Lat/Lon position coordinates).

ii. Option 2: MVAR (Local magnetic variation).

iii. Option 3: WIND (Wind Direction and speed).

iv. Option 4: BLANK

v. Option 5: BLANK

5. Enter AC present position (lat/lon).

6. Enter local magnetic variation (MVAR) if the value shown is 0

7. Place the INS mode selector knob in the selected alignment mode: SEA, GND, IFA or GYRO. The alignment process will start immediately IF THE REQUIRED INFORMATION IS PRESENT.

8. When alignment is finished, place the INS mode selector knob either in NAV or IFA (for GPS coupled navigation).

I am one of the more hardcore for realism but I think the right decision was to leave it to the mission designers. Any of your hardcore multiplayer servers would have the always aligned option disabled. But newbie events, aerobatic servers, and single player are fine to use it. I sometimes turn on the "cheat" because on my 4th mission of the day I don't want to align the stupid INS for 8 minutes again in single player. That's a half hour of pretty much nothing in the Mirage. The A-10 wouldn't need the "cheat" anyway because by the time you get everything else set up it's already done anyway. You shouldn't be able to do it in Blue Flag or similar servers but there's a lot of other reasons and places it isn't a big deal.

OK, but I don't get why this INS align procedure was posted. All it did was introduce confusion into an already somewhat complicated sim.

Are other procedures also changing? I am also having trouble with IRMAV seeker.

Procedure

Master ON - Chk

Master Mode - AG

IRMAV station select. Wait until STBY changes to RDY - Chk

UNCAGE - Chk

Sensor FWD HOTAS to slew seeker. - NO GO Sensor FWD does not allow IRMAV seeker to slew. I thought tha HUD symbol changes to box with diamond. But I get no such function.