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FW190D9 can't dogfight.


Snapage

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  • ED Team
It was a question not a statement.

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

No the Dora is not broken, it just requires some skill to master.

 

Many are already using it in multiplayer and doing very well with it.

 

Thanks

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This plane has never been great at dogfighting

 

It has always been great at dogfighting, but it's not a turnfighter. You go A-to-A in the Dora, you fight in the vertical.

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  • ED Team

Dora is one of the best energy fighter and has a great advantage over Spitfire and P-47. Energy swing near ground with MW-50 gives 2200 m of altitude gain and 750 kph at the SL, and TO power gives about 720 kph and 2000 m. (Just checked it))

 

P-51, for comparison, has less: 680 kph and 1850 m at TO power.

And I even won't show the Spitfire's numbers... :)

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Dora is one of the best energy fighter and has a great advantage over Spitfire and P-47. Energy swing near ground with MW-50 gives 2200 m of altitude gain and 750 kph at the SL, and TO power gives about 720 kph and 2000 m. (Just checked it))

 

P-51, for comparison, has less: 680 kph and 1850 m at TO power.

And I even won't show the Spitfire's numbers... :)

 

What about P-51H with wet 80" ?

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Dora is one of the best energy fighter and has a great advantage over Spitfire and P-47. Energy swing near ground with MW-50 gives 2200 m of altitude gain and 750 kph at the SL, and TO power gives about 720 kph and 2000 m. (Just checked it))

 

P-51, for comparison, has less: 680 kph and 1850 m at TO power.

And I even won't show the Spitfire's numbers... :)

 

Thanks for jumping in.. We were wondering about the maximum engine RPM w/o engaging the MW-50. In DCS manual there is nothing specified about this. Can you please enlighten us? I think some people are overrevving the engine..

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  • ED Team
Thanks for jumping in.. We were wondering about the maximum engine RPM w/o engaging the MW-50. In DCS manual there is nothing specified about this. Can you please enlighten us? I think some people are overrevving the engine..

 

3250 is the same for TO and MW-50 WEP. Jumo-213 has scheduled rpm/ata (not exactly pressure, as I explained earlier, but for simplification only). MW-50 mode increases only ata.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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3250 is the same for TO and MW-50 WEP. Jumo-213 has scheduled rpm/ata (not exactly pressure, as I explained earlier, but for simplification only). MW-50 mode increases only ata.
So, 3200rpm w/o MW is not quite ok.. is it correct?

 

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Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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My comment on the title: "FW190D9 can't dogfight"...

 

Simply put - the FW-190 (both A & D versions) was never a dogfighter.

While it´s roll rate was great, it has never been good at turning compared to the spitfire or Mustang.

What mad it a succes, was it´s ability to boom and zoom.

And note that the general rule of thumb for the german pilot's where never to engage if they did not have the advantage (either, speed, altitude or position).

 

The FW-190 D9'th main task was to intercept bombers at high altitude, so they would rather evade the enemy escort fighters.

 

Flown right, the energy fighter will always have the advantage to pick when and where to fight, but not necessarily be able to hit the turn fighter, while the turn fighter will have the advantage of being able to evade by better turn performance, but rather be on the defensive against an energy fighter.

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My comment on the title: "FW190D9 can't dogfight"...

 

Simply put - the FW-190 (both A & D versions) was never a dogfighter.

While it´s roll rate was great, it has never been good at turning compared to the spitfire or Mustang.

What mad it a succes, was it´s ability to boom and zoom.

And note that the general rule of thumb for the german pilot's where never to engage if they did not have the advantage (either, speed, altitude or position).

 

The FW-190 D9'th main task was to intercept bombers at high altitude, so they would rather evade the enemy escort fighters.

 

Flown right, the energy fighter will always have the advantage to pick when and where to fight, but not necessarily be able to hit the turn fighter, while the turn fighter will have the advantage of being able to evade by better turn performance, but rather be on the defensive against an energy fighter.

Then you've never heard of deflection shooting..

 

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Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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So, 3200rpm w/o MW is not quite ok.. is it correct?

 

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Why not?

 

The engine is from 1942 and was first used by bombers.

 

-combat power was 3000 rpm -> 30min

-take off / emergency power was 3250 rpm -> 3 min

 

In late 1944 the fighter version of the engine was cleared by Junkers for 3000 rpm continious and 3250 rpm for 30min.

 

As Yo-Yo mentioned, with MW50 it's the same rpm but with higher boost.


Edited by Flying-Kane

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  • ED Team
So, 3200rpm w/o MW is not quite ok.. is it correct?

 

Sent from my Redmi 5 using Tapatalk

 

No, it's normal rate - Start- und Notleistung.

 

If MW-50 is not used it is the highest rate.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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No, it's normal rate - Start- und Notleistung.

 

If MW-50 is not used it is the highest rate.

All clear now. Thank you!

 

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Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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Then you've never heard of deflection shooting..

 

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Sure...

 

But the chance of a hit is so much smaller than from the six and relative few pilots had the skills for anything more than some lucky hits.

Problem with flight simming in these aircraft, is that we do it with all the hindsight and knowledge that has been gathered afterwards.

Back then the normal pilot didn´t know the enemys aircraft performance as well as we simmer do, and fighting the real war was so much different than sitting in a comfortable chair without riscing Your real life.

 

The fighter pilots back then also flew one type and did not have the luxury to try different aircraft ypes and thus be able to rate them against each other and thereby find the good and the bad of their own aircraft type.


Edited by fjacobsen

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If you think there is a problem it would be best to have a track replay showing the issue and we can investigate.

 

But remember, speed is life especially in the Dora, and you will need to manage the engine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do you know it is broken if you have not flown it?

 

The Dora does require high skill to master for sure, but it is most definitely not broken

 

Thanks

 

 

I don't have the motivation to bug test this module but I do want to talk about concerns I have with this module based on resent experience.

 

 

 

This plane used to be able to gain an altitude advantage and/or extend away from the P51D relatively easily but now it seems to struggle.

 

 

 

I know two other people who have noticed a loss in power during flights in the Dora and one of them tried to figure out why. They have told me that the radiators don't seem to be opening fast enough and the engine is overheating. They said this can be avoided by manually controlling the radiators when needed.

 

 

 

The P51D has a similar problem. You have to manually open the oil radiator to keep the temperature in the green or your engine will seize. The auto oil radiator does not keep the temp in the green.

 

 

But maybe this is how its intended to be. Maybe to push the Dora to its limit and pull off aggressive vertical maneuvers you have to manually operate the radiator to keep the engine tempts normal.

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My comment on the title: "FW190D9 can't dogfight"...

 

Simply put - the FW-190 (both A & D versions) was never a dogfighter.

While it´s roll rate was great, it has never been good at turning compared to the spitfire or Mustang.

What mad it a succes, was it´s ability to boom and zoom.

And note that the general rule of thumb for the german pilot's where never to engage if they did not have the advantage (either, speed, altitude or position).

 

Exactly this.

If you use the Doras strenghts, you can even win fights against multiple enemies.

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Exactly this.

If you use the Doras strenghts, you can even win fights against multiple enemies.

 

On airquake server..

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Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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Well, believe it or not, but that also works on non-airquake servers.

 

But not like in that movie..:smilewink:

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Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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About the power.. I've just flew the Dora using the power settings confirmed by Yo-Yo, and I too got the same issue when setting the RPM >3000 w/o MW-50. Either the engine is overheating or if you open the cowl flaps then you will be more draggy and that will nullify the extra RPMs. Something is missing here.. On open beta.

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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I am on open beta i have no issues with temps. Unless i got vertical to and below 150kph

btw what was the air temp when you were testing it,

Do you have cowl flaps assigned to axis ??


Edited by grafspee

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I am on open beta i have no issues with temps. Unless i got vertical to and below 150kph

btw what was the air temp when you were testing it,

Do you have cowl flaps assigned to axis ??

It was on BuddySpike's BlueFlag server and I didn't quite pay attention of external temps. But anyway, it is not an air cooled engine, I don't understand why the cooling is so inefficient if those RPMs were accepted as standard. In your case the prop wash should deliver enough airflow to allow the heat exchange. It can be calculated though if there's enough data.

 

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Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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It was on BuddySpike's BlueFlag server and I didn't quite pay attention of external temps. But anyway, it is not an air cooled engine, I don't understand why the cooling is so inefficient if those RPMs were accepted as standard. In your case the prop wash should deliver enough airflow to allow the heat exchange. It can be calculated though if there's enough data.

 

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I flying just right now, i can say that fw190 has the best cooling in DCS :P temps are rock steady coolant is 100C no matter what i do.

I just dont understand why you have temp problem.

I just entered vertical climb slowed down to 200 kph in it, not problem what so ever, cowl flaps opened to full via automatic system i didn't touch cooling non.

Buddy spike isnt they removing mw50 or meddling with some settings of planes ?? i would not test fw190 there.

Outside temp will very much impact cooling ability of cooling system in plane regardless is it air cooled or liquid cooled engine.

'i testes Dora in blueflag too, no problem with overheating, can you specify which temp is overheating coolant or oil ??


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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There are also issues when starting the engine. Just try to do the procedure from the manual.

 

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Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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There are also issues when starting the engine. Just try to do the procedure from the manual.

 

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I don't use that, DCS manuals are 25 years old.

Actually it got better you don't need to hold starter so long to start engine up

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