Large Bomber Formations

So, not that I've have the Normandy map and the WWII Assets Pack up and running, how do I put one of those awesome large bomber formations into a mission, like we've seen in some of the preview videos? :(

I can only create an aircraft group with 4 AC. There are two bomber formations from which to choose (ww2 Bomber Element, and ww2 Bomber Element Hight Separation), but if I want a 12 bomber formation it seems I need to create 2 groups. But how do I get them to band together into 1 formation that follows one set of waypoints?

Anybody know how to do this?

So, not that I've have the Normandy map and the WWII Assets Pack up and running, how do I put one of those awesome large bomber formations into a mission, like we've seen in some of the preview videos? :(

 

I can only create an aircraft group with 4 AC. There are two bomber formations from which to choose (ww2 Bomber Element, and ww2 Bomber Element Hight Separation), but if I want a 12 bomber formation it seems I need to create 2 groups. But how do I get them to band together into 1 formation that follows one set of waypoints?

 

Anybody know how to do this?

Under Advanced waypoint actions and then 'perform task', there's a function called "WW2 Big Formation" wich allows you to assign a group to a 'lead group' and position them in the formation.

In case you're wondering, you'll also find carpet bombing options under advanced waypoint actions -> 'perform task'

Could somebody please post a mission with a B-17 combat box? I am succeeding at letting a 4 ship carpet bomb, but not at making more ships fly in a coherent formation.

I had some success last night, but not enough to post a mission yet. I'm a little concerned about how the box will stand up to an attack. It looks like the formation is defined relative to a lead plane. What happens when that lead plane is damaged/destroyed? Does the formation dissolve or does it keep on trucking?

The limited success I've had requires you to put a single bomber in each group. Each bomber group gets a unique wwII formation task. The "GROUP" field in the wwII formation command is set to the group of the lead plane. The other bomber positions in the combat box are determined by the Wing, Group, Box fields. To make the smallest box of 4 bombers, set Wing & Group to "leader." Then set the Box field for each bomber to leader, left, right, back. The bombers will snap to the correct coordinates in the mission editor.

I admit, I've only had an hour to play in the editor so the categories might not be accurate, but this should help you on your way. I'll update with a more concise description in the future.

Under Advanced waypoint actions and then 'perform task', there's a function called "WW2 Big Formation" wich allows you to assign a group to a 'lead group' and position them in the formation.

 

In case you're wondering, you'll also find carpet bombing options under advanced waypoint actions -> 'perform task'

Ahhhh yes, thank you. I got one large formation setup, but they were spread out really wide. 16 AC over several miles.

Maybe because I didn't give the first Airplane Group a formation first, and then copied this group to create the other 3. So probably the first group is per default just spread the hell out thus forcing all the others to be spread the hell out too *sigh*.

Also, I though that since all four groups are in the same 'WW2 big formation' they would all follow the first group. Alas, that is also not the case.

Apparently the way to do what I want is:

1. Create the first group of bombers.

2. Give this group a formation through Advanced (Waypoint Actions)

Type: Set Option

Action: Formation

Type: ww2 Bomber Element

Variant: Close

3. Create all waypoints for this group, including Advanced (Waypoint Actions) for bombing, which I also don't understand yet :huh:

4. Then once the first group is completely set, copy it to 3 other groups (so that they all have the same starting formation, and all the same waypoints and Actions), which you then combine with the 'WW2 big formation' Action

I'm also completely unsure how the

Pos_In_Wing

Pos_In_Group

Pos_In_Box

settings work *double-sigh* (it's too bad there's nobody left alive from the people who wrote all this, who could give some simple explanations to how this works :smilewink:)

Also, the 'WW2 big formation' GROUP is a mystery. When setting up the first Airplane Group, the only reasonable selection is 'Nothing'. After that, for all other groups, you can select the first group... or any other group for that matter. But if this is necessary, or useful, or inconsequential, or what-ever... who knows. You have to Trial-n-Error™ the heck out of every little thing.

Good thing I'm not married, otherwise my wife would probably divorce my ass :huh:

I got it to work by creating one 4 group with "close formation" and "carpet bombing" location, then copying it and placing more groups and adding "big formation" to them. Then select the first group as target and using all of the available Pos_In_Wing, Group and Box options.

I get them to fly close and maintaing altitude and such, however i only get the first plane in every group to drop bombs, the other 3 do nothing

Finally got a 16 AC nice tight formation! :thumbup:

1. Create the first group of 4 bombers.

2. Open Advance (Waypoint Actions)

3. Add 1st AWA:

Type: Set Option

Action: Formation

Type: ww2 Bomber Element

Variant: Close

4. Add 2nd AWA:

Type: Perform Task

Action: WW2 big formation

Group: Nothing

Formation Type: Combat Box

Pos_In_Wing: Leader

Pos_In_Group: Leader

Pos_In_Box: Leader

5. Create all waypoints for this group, including Advanced (Waypoint Actions) for bombing, which I also don't understand yet

6. Then once the first group is completely set, use <Ctrl><C> <Ctrl><V>to copy it to 3 additional groups. It apparently makes no difference how far apart their initial on-the-map icon is, because when the Set Option Formation and Perform Task WW2 big formation are the first AWA's, all the groups start already in the big formation.

7. Using 'View unit list ' select the 2nd-4th bomber groups, and in the AWA WW2 big formation task

a. Set Group pulldown to the name 1st bomber group.

b. Set Pos_In_Box to Left, Right, and Back, so that each group has a unique setting (no doubles).

Save and run.

Worked wonderfully :D .... until the first turning point :doh: at which point, chaos ensued :(

It appeared as if all the following groups were trying to simply follow the first group, but because of their close proximity that immediately also started to try to avoid each other, including AC withing each group trying to avoid other AC within their own group. AC started to crash into each other. Groups spread around and tried to rejoin, which only exacerbated the situation.

After about 10 minutes of this, from 4 groups of 4 AC each, only 5 AC remained :doh:

My feeling is that AC within a group are trying to follow their lead AC, much the same as when you are flying your own AC with 3 other AC in your flight. Every time you change your heading and/or altitude, all the other AC in your flight try to maintain their position. Only now you have one lead group with 3 others trying to follow the first.

This is not how it should work. From my understanding, a large formation is not a game of follow-the-leader, but like a convoy. Every turn in pre-planed and executed synchronously. No AC within a group should be encroaching on another, nor should one group ever crowd another. They should be coordinated.

I guess this is still very, Very, vErY much still WIP :noexpression:

Besides all this, the B-17's were maneuvering like fighters, and that with a full bomb load Day-amn! :huh:

Nice work Cpt Orso <S>

We don't even need a maneuvering bomber box to make a compelling mission. I'd be satisfied with a formation that flies in a straight line, fires MGs defensively at enemy fighters (without maneuvering), and drops ordinance on command. I don't think we have the tools to do this yet. (Please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Did any of the trailers show B17s fighting back with MGs?

No, defensive fire is not implemented yet. But I got the formation to work, thanks for the tips.

Thanks all for the tips.

When these puppies start firing back, that will be a challenge.

Hi,

:thumbup: Thanks for the description - 32 bombers in the air

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Google & Co

B-17G Data - Speed, Range, Altitude

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/B-17/B-17G_Standard_Aircraft_Characteristics.pdf

After take off, the bomber assembled formation above low-frequence transmitters (Bunchers) at 14000 - 18000 ft (weather, visibility)

Cruise and Bombing Altitude over Germany (FLAK !!!) - in the most cases : 25,000 - 27,000 ft

See : http://www.398th.org/History/Diaries/Arlin/Diary_Index_Arlin.html

This is how you do it:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3153559&postcount=7