Easy AAR poll

I'm sorry but, am I correct in thinking that some in here are arguing in favor of using unlimited fuel as a workaround for AAR as it is modeled now, rather than ED coming up with a more relaxed option for those that would like to have it a little easier behind the tanker? And that is because why??? Realism??? :megalol:

@Razor

The poll is ''do YOU want'' not ''do you think SOMEBODY ELSE wants''. It's also irrelevant if ''some'' want, if a large portion won't use. I.E. the ''breathalyzer'' thread. Would ''some'' use it? Probably. Would enough use it is the issue.

 

Would lots of people use easy AAR? That's the purpose of this poll. So far it's 2 to 1 against, even with many of the supporters being self professed ''I wouldn't use it myself'' types. End result : most people of the sample so far would not use it.

 

Note : any addition requires time and resources

Hey man, it's an opinion. Get over it. I'm certain that ED is quite capable of determining what time and resources they wish to apply to their product.

 

I have no problem doing AAR in any airframe, including the Hornet (super easy), tomcat, viper, harrier... but I have the means to invest in quality hardware, including a good HOTAS and VR. Some folks I play online with don’t even have TrackIR, and a low end HOTAS. I spend a lot of time in right observation waiting for them and watching them get frustrated, so if it improves their gameplay, I’m happy.

Problem is that DCS doesn't simulate air refueling properly. It is a lot easier that IRL.

So what can be today easy for some, it might become impossible if correct simulation would be applied. And that what is today difficult or near impossible, might come in future just impossible.

Fighter pilots has everything a lot easier than helicopter pilots....

None of the arguments in opposition to Unlimited Fuel have convinced me. Any time I try to answer these arguments the goal posts are continuously moved.

I think it's an ego thing. People want the experience of AAR refueling.. but not to the point where they actually have to experience it.

ED can implement relaxed realism AAR if they want, I don't care. It's just another cheat mode. But unlimited fuel is already a cheat mode, so who cares...

«I made a poll so we can just have a quick vote instead of the ridiculously long thread we already had.»

«Also, lets just make this a second, identical thread in the process.»

Ah, DCS community.

I think in the end if ED thinks it may make money, they'll do it whatever the Poll says. While I would like to see it eventually, for the present I don't think they should add anything new at all. Just fix and complete what we already have even if it takes a year or more and maybe look at things like this again then.

So if we had this...some would use it and some would not. I really do not care one way or the other. Why should those who do not want it care if it is there and someone uses it?

Do they believe pilots would use easy mode and lie about it? Who cares...

But of course MP servers that are hard core would just disable it. So the realism hardcore Pilots would never experience it or fly with those that do. So how would it affect them...that’s right...it wouldn’t.

«I made a poll so we can just have a quick vote instead of the ridiculously long thread we already had.»

 

«Also, lets just make this a second, identical thread in the process.»

 

Ah, DCS community.

At least we're consistent

«Also, lets just make this a second, identical thread in the process.»

That was, uhm, unexpected :)

And the poll turned out useless anyway. Should've asked "Would you use it?" instead.

I'm sorry but, am I correct in thinking that some in here are arguing in favor of using unlimited fuel as a workaround for AAR as it is modeled now, rather than ED coming up with a more relaxed option for those that would like to have it a little easier behind the tanker? And that is because why??? Realism??? :megalol:

No Razor, you are not correct in thinking that, at least not from my statement. I said that for those that don't care about the realism side, Unlimited Fuel is an option for those that can't get the hang of AAR for whatever reason. If you want realism and you strive to be as realistic as possible, I don't think you would want an easy. But that is just me. I think Unlimited Fuel is a better option at the moment so as to not burden an already cumbersome process with a new option when ED has struggled in recent months just getting "simple" coding to work properly without completely breaking something else. Since they have yet to prove they can do it, no I would not like them to devote time to a development an "easy" mode for an advanced aspect of flight. Would I burn my DCS SSD if they added it, no, but I think they can move resources in better directions to improve the experiance for all without adding the easy button/switch/checkbox.

I've just remembered that when I first started DCS I set up a simple mission just to fly around and get a feel for the F-14, so I set unlimited fuel and of I went. After a few runs up valleys and using afterburner just to see how fast it would go the master caution light came on and panic set in thinking I'd broken something! It turned out to be bingo fuel warning! somehow I activated the fuel dump. So with the F-14 at least you can dump fuel to get to trap weight even with unlimited fuel.

Just thought I'd mention it.

Obviously yes.

In large part because that would put AAR on par with all other activities in the game where a plethora of such options already exist to aid with learning (or just make for a more casual gameplay experience). But above all, because there simply isn't a single coherent argument against having such options.

Sure ...

 

But also let's have easy/auto BFM, BVR, take-off, landing, carrier recovery, coordinated turns, and, why not, straighjt-and-level flight (<- someone actually asked for this too!).

 

Better yet, just have an option for people to get a first-person view in the cockpit of an AI aircraft where they can push/pull controls and press buttons so they can pretend to be playing this game but really the AI does everything for them.

You do realise that all of that already exists, yes? There's no need to ask for it — just to turn it on.

So if we had this...some would use it and some would not. I really do not care one way or the other. Why should those who do not want it care if it is there and someone uses it?

 

Do they believe pilots would use easy mode and lie about it? Who cares...

 

But of course MP servers that are hard core would just disable it. So the realism hardcore Pilots would never experience it or fly with those that do. So how would it affect them...that’s right...it wouldn’t.

IT

IS

NOT

ABOUT

REALISM.

It is about developer resources.

If someone could wave a magic wand and just make it happen: great, I don't care who uses it.

If ED decides to do it and this results --- as it will inevitably, due to basic thermodynamic laws of the universe -- in delays to bug fixes, module completion, better AI, etc.: that I do care!

Well, ultimately it is up to ED and you know what I already stated my opinion on this so I'm going to stop talking about it after this post. This option doesn't affect me directly since I've already passed that learning curve but it may ease the pain for a lot of people, so why the heck not.

Keep in mind that revenue is the bottomline for any type of business entity because people have to eat at the end of the day. How would you increase that revenue with existing resources, would it be by expanding your customer base via options that would perhaps entice a wider range of people from a segment that has been untapped, or by cranking out more products that appeal to the existing users...

«I made a poll so we can just have a quick vote instead of the ridiculously long thread we already had.»

 

«Also, lets just make this a second, identical thread in the process.»

 

Ah, DCS community.

If you want quick poll, then so not allow anyone to comment it or the poll at all.

ED forum spent support that.

And anyways, everyone needs to be able explain their opinions that why. So just a poll is not good enough for most cases.

That was, uhm, unexpected :)

 

And the poll turned out useless anyway. Should've asked "Would you use it?" instead.

We could make many polls work many questions.

Would you use it

Do you think someone would use it

Would it help the game

Would it help players

Would it help mission designers

Do you think it is waste of time

Do you think ED would get more sales with it

....

Many questions that for many can be yes and no so you can't have one poll to tell it all.

.

 

It is about developer resources.

 

If someone could wave a magic wand and just make it happen: great, I don't care who uses it.

 

If ED decides to do it and this results --- as it will inevitably, due to basic thermodynamic laws of the universe -- in delays to bug fixes, module completion, better AI, etc.: that I do care!

Again that is argument "there are better things to do" based many assumptions that ED has just coders doing same things, or that all wishes should be done ASAP instead being placed to to-do list to be some when it come comes...

Or, add the option. It doesn't have to be binary. 

i voted no, but only because i would not want it for myself. i think it would be a nice feature for others though.

so the wording of the poll is a little bit bad frankly. i don't want it "badly", but i still think it's a good idea, if done right.

Why WHY "revive" this thread? 

Anyways... back on topic 

For those interested in easy AAR (or no AAR at all), I just started the new "Rise of the Persian lion" campaign by @Badger633 and it appears to include an additional alternative campaign for those who haven't yet mastered (or don't really feel like mastering) the art of AAR

Check it out here:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/campaigns/fa-18c_rise_of_the_persian_lion_campaign/

51 minutes ago, sirrah said:

Why WHY "revive" this thread? 

 

 

Anyways... back on topic 

 

For those interested in easy AAR (or no AAR at all), I just started the new "Rise of the Persian lion" campaign by @Badger633 and it appears to include an additional alternative campaign for those who haven't yet mastered (or don't really feel like mastering) the art of AAR

 

Check it out here:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/campaigns/fa-18c_rise_of_the_persian_lion_campaign/

 

Hi, just so you know my Campaign prior to this, ‘The Serpent’s Head 2’ also has an easy Air to Air refuel option. Also for the Hornet and still available in the DCS e shop.

Although a lot of extra work I always give this option for those that still haven’t got A2A refuel down. The option allows those to still play campaigns that they otherwise wouldn’t be able to. The bonus being when they do get it sorted they can then play the normal version also.

Cheers

Badger633

As someone who has no problems with AAR - I have two minds about this issue as I often play online in multiplayer scenario's where we have dedicated co-op 'missions' made for a weekend, etc. Those dedicated missions will last hours and often call for AAR.

I have seen a few newer members that have been put off by missions because they can't AAR. We're all about trying to get more people involved in DCS - so anything that can assist that - is great. Of course the mission designer for the weekend can put in alternative arrangements for such players, but it's not always practical - and it also creates extra work for mission designers. (And lets face it - if you've done any significant mission building in DCS as it is - you know there are lots of obstacles to get around as things don't always work the way they should) - so anything to help mission designers would be good.

However as I have observed ED over the past 12 months or so - it is blaringly obvious that there are many other far more important issues that have not been addressed yet that desperately need it. Pathing for CA units that is causing issues with combined arms, or just missions in general. Invisible trains and other desync issues on multiplayer. CPU intense procedures causing massive frame issues in certain scenario's. The search for better performance (Vulcan/multithreading, etc). Not to mention various other numerous bugs plus things that need to be completed with existing modules. I imagine the tasklist at DCS is significantly huge. 

So while it's easy to say "YES" - it would be great to have this feature - just think... if the poll was "Which would you prefer ED spend time on more - Automatic AAR or Performance", or "Auto AAR vs <insert your favorite bug here>",  "Are you happy for the 64D to be pushed back to make allowance for AAR", etc - where would we all sit? Because that's what we're really asking. ED to take resources away from fixing those other things first.

So - if it could be implemented EASILLY - and without taking much effort and resources away from the other development and bugs fixes - then yes - I'd be for it even though I have no need for it personally. I think "AI Aircraft do it automatically - would it be possibly to automatically take over a human aircraft with AI logic until AAR is complete and then revert easilly?". If this answer was Yes - then go for it. But if any sort of newer coding has to be done - this means more bugs introduced plus more code to be maintained which is going to take away from many of the other things in play at the moment.