Easier Key Mapping

There is already a post:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=278764

 

in which a user states they may not purchase additional DCS modules because the level of fidelity in the game requires too much time to master the module.

 

Maybe a partial solution to this problem is to reduce the ramp up time, by making certain ramp up activities easier.

 

For me the part of getting a new module I dread the most is mapping the keys.

 

Currently to map keys, I have to mouse over a button, and read the tool tip.

Then I have to open the Adjust Controls Menu, and search for that tool tip name, or scroll through a very long list, or find or guess the right category that that control is located in.

 

Then, since I like to map keys on the keyboard based on the location of the key on the keyboard and how it best simulates the location in the cockpit panel, I have to remember where that switch was in the cockpit (because now with the menu open the cockpit is covered up from view).

 

It would be great if we can while in the cockpit, mouse over the switch or button, hit a key combination and the change key dialog box appears, and like the re-arm, refuel dialog box, it can be dragged around so as to not obstruct the cockpit view.

 

I still think the existing Adjust Control menu is good and can be used as an official method, but the method I am suggesting I imagine would reduce key mapping time, maybe by half.

In addition, it would be great if the took tips showed what keys are mapped.

FC3 low fidelity set is a good example for starters to DCS as most of the key bindings are common as much as possible. If other mod releases could accept a similar standard protocol wherever possible it would certainly help. A lot of the keys for view changes are standard, but since everyone has different preferences when mapping key presses to hotas buttons it could get very difficult to standardise. I also prefer to use some different sets of key presses for some functions so i have to reset keybindings off the default anyway. tricky one.

Why are you mapping keyboard keys for a clickable cockpit?

Why are you mapping keyboard keys for a clickable cockpit?

 

Because it is possible in DCS.

 

Because the mouse cursor is with respect to the screen view and I use trackir, which influences the mouse movement, as if the virtual hand is stuck to the virtual head, or as if the cursor represents the trunk on an elephant's head and is slaved to the elephants head shift, and zeroing in on a switch requires zeroing in of the head and the hand.

 

You don't map keys? Then why does DCS have the option if everyone is like you and does not use the keyboard during flight?

Are there not pilots who can have the muscle memory to reach out to a switch on the dash while still keeping and eye out the cockpit?

 

I answer this because it is a question. If this goes close minded, this will be my first and last response in this thread for you.

Because it is possible in DCS.

 

Because the mouse cursor is with respect to the screen view and I use trackir, which influences the mouse movement, as if the virtual hand is stuck to the virtual head, or as if the cursor represents the trunk on an elephant's head and is slaved to the elephants head shift, and zeroing in on a switch requires zeroing in of the head and the hand.

 

You don't map keys? Then why does DCS have the option if everyone is like you and does not use the keyboard during flight?

Are there not pilots who can have the muscle memory to reach out to a switch on the dash while still keeping and eye out the cockpit?

 

I answer this because it is a question. If this goes close minded, this will be my first and last response in this thread for you.

Sure it’s possible to map keys. I figure that function is provided... because... why wouldn’t it? It’s possible that home cockpit builders use keyboard emulation to assign everything.

But I can’t imagine the intent was for all of those to be used in lieu of the clickable cockpit. That would be an extremely difficult thing to do.

Of course I use a few easy keys:

G for landing gear

Esc

Ctrl+EEE Eject

F keys for view and so on. I do have a TrackIR, maybe it would help to adjust the sensitivity down in order to make it easier to keep the mouse steady. A bit of zoom view can help as well. Some people set up snap views for things like a CDU that has many small keys.

Edited June 28, 2020 by SharpeXB

Agreed. The binding interface is a bit of a relic at this point and as complexity (and variety) of modules increase, it will only ever become increasingly outdated and painful to use.

 

It also contains all kinds of very dumb conventions that really need to go (attempts at auto-mapping unknown devices; restricting what devices can be bound to what functions; critical binding functionality not being exposed etc) that makes the whole process a lot more long-winded than it needs to be.

 

There are a few tricky details that would complicate matters, however. One is that a fifth of the aircraft in DCS don't have any controls to hover over and no tool tips to help provide the functionality. Another one is that many controls have a number of inputs that would need to be exposed this way: a single dial may have dozen binds associated with it, like “dial clockwise”; “dial counter-clockwise”, “set to position A, B … Q”, “push to activate” and so on. The new folded binding UI might help a bit here if using the bind-this-control function simply popped up the window with the right folder and control opened, highlighted, and filtered, but it can quite quickly become quite complicated.

 

In addition, it would be great if the took tips showed what keys are mapped.

 

In general a good idea, but it's questionable how helpful it would be outside of just the keyboard binds — knowing that my ADF frequency CW is bound to “BTN 31” doesn't say much. :D

 

Somewhat ironically, it would be the most helpful for the FC3 aircraft where you can't interact with the controls to begin with so there would be no hover spots that would show the information.

I agree that control assignment is also for me a big threshold. I only play in VR. So, have to assign everything to my hotas. Unfortunately I can play dcs not often enough to keep remembering the assignments. Button32 does not tell me where it is on my hotas.

So I have to use pdf images of my hotas with the button numbers. Not easy in vr. I have to switch between headset and monitor all the time.

Sure it’s possible to map keys. I figure that function is provided... because... why wouldn’t it? It’s possible that home cockpit builders use keyboard emulation to assign everything.

But I can’t imagine the intent was for all of those to be used in lieu of the clickable cockpit. That would be an extremely difficult thing to do.

Of course I use a few easy keys:

G for landing gear

Esc

Ctrl+EEE Eject

F keys for view and so on. I do have a TrackIR, maybe it would help to adjust the sensitivity down in order to make it easier to keep the mouse steady. A bit of zoom view can help as well. Some people set up snap views for things like a CDU that has many small keys.

 

For answers, you can reread my first response. I want a hand independent of my head movement, to look out the cockpit while my hand is ready on a switch.

Agreed. The binding interface is a bit of a relic at this point and as complexity (and variety) of modules increase, it will only ever become increasingly outdated and painful to use.

 

It also contains all kinds of very dumb conventions that really need to go (attempts at auto-mapping unknown devices; restricting what devices can be bound to what functions; critical binding functionality not being exposed etc) that makes the whole process a lot more long-winded than it needs to be.

 

There are a few tricky details that would complicate matters, however. One is that a fifth of the aircraft in DCS don't have any controls to hover over and no tool tips to help provide the functionality. Another one is that many controls have a number of inputs that would need to be exposed this way: a single dial may have dozen binds associated with it, like “dial clockwise”; “dial counter-clockwise”, “set to position A, B … Q”, “push to activate” and so on. The new folded binding UI might help a bit here if using the bind-this-control function simply popped up the window with the right folder and control opened, highlighted, and filtered, but it can quite quickly become quite complicated.

 

 

 

In general a good idea, but it's questionable how helpful it would be outside of just the keyboard binds — knowing that my ADF frequency CW is bound to “BTN 31” doesn't say much. :D

 

Somewhat ironically, it would be the most helpful for the FC3 aircraft where you can't interact with the controls to begin with so there would be no hover spots that would show the information.

 

Just because you and the other guy don't use it does not make it a relic.

If you were steering DCS, I might rethink some of my purchases.

 

You and the other guy can claim I just need to tweak my trackir, but with my key bindings, I don't have to look down like you do, and can do things a fraction of a second faster.

 

Yes, my suggestion for the key in the tool tip only helps for the bindings, that was the point. Once I get the bindings, I can just turn off tool tips.

 

If this does not work for you what solutions are you providing?

If you feel strongly about it you can post a poll to get rid of the relic.

I'm sure ED will want to throw away all their hard spent work.

Edited June 28, 2020 by LowRider88

For answers, you can reread my first response. I want a hand independent of my head movement, to look out the cockpit while my hand is ready on a switch.

Usually commands like that are assigned on a HOTAS. Those are very worthwhile for DCS.

Just because you and the other guy don't use it does not make it a relic.

Top tip: if you want support, immediately antagonising your supporters is not the most constructive strategy to adopt…

 

But fine, let's have it your way: I retract what I said and will now instead claim that the binding setup DCS offers is perfect in every way and should not be updated to more modern standards. Happy now? :no_sad:

 

What part of “agreed” followed by various issues with the binding interface made you conclude that I do not use the very interface that I've found all these issues with? How do you think I've found all the issues? Divination?

 

You and the other guy can claim I just need to tweak my trackir,

I have made no such claim. Again, antagonising your supporters by inventing a bunch of nonsense and telling them that they said what you invented will not help your case. Quite the opposite. Strawmen are fallacies for a reason.

 

Yes, my suggestion for the key in the tool tip only helps for the bindings, that was the point.

And the counter-point was that it won't help for a lot of binds; that you need to keep massaging your idea to handle those very common cases.

 

If this does not work for you what solutions are you providing?

Where did I say that it doesn't work for me? Again, stop inventing things.

As for solutions, I provided one. You were too busy being pointlessly upset over your own inventions to notice, I guess.

 

Oh, and the reason the binding interface is a relic is because it's old. It's cumbersome. It obfuscates some functionality and completely omits even more. It suffers from a ton of misfeatures and is lacking modern UX and UI design sensibilities. Your issue is one example of this.

Top tip: if you want support, immediately antagonising your supporters is not the most constructive strategy to adopt…

 

But fine, let's have it your way: I retract what I said and will now instead claim that the binding setup DCS offers is perfect in every way and should not be updated to more modern standards. Happy now? :no_sad:

 

What part of “agreed” followed by various issues with the binding interface made you conclude that I do not use the very interface that I've found all these issues with? How do you think I've found all the issues? Divination?

 

I have made no such claim. Again, antagonising your supporters by inventing a bunch of nonsense and telling them that they said what you invented will not help your case. Quite the opposite. Strawmen are fallacies for a reason.

 

And the counter-point was that it won't help for a lot of binds; that you need to keep massaging your idea to handle those very common cases.

 

Where did I say that it doesn't work for me? Again, stop inventing things.

As for solutions, I provided one. You were too busy being pointlessly upset over your own inventions to notice, I guess.

 

Oh, and the reason the binding interface is a relic is because it's old. It's cumbersome. It obfuscates some functionality and completely omits even more. It suffers from a ton of misfeatures and is lacking modern UX and UI design sensibilities. Your issue is one example of this.

 

Then I misunderstood you.

I thought you were agreeing with Sharpe that this post was not necessary. In that case, you have my formal apology.

Thanks very much for your support.

I suggest you relax the strawman labeling and accusations. Using it more than often gives you an image of a debater.

Agreed. The binding interface is a bit of a relic at this point and as complexity (and variety) of modules increase, it will only ever become increasingly outdated and painful to use.

 

It also contains all kinds of very dumb conventions that really need to go (attempts at auto-mapping unknown devices; restricting what devices can be bound to what functions; critical binding functionality not being exposed etc) that makes the whole process a lot more long-winded than it needs to be.

 

There are a few tricky details that would complicate matters, however. One is that a fifth of the aircraft in DCS don't have any controls to hover over and no tool tips to help provide the functionality. Another one is that many controls have a number of inputs that would need to be exposed this way: a single dial may have dozen binds associated with it, like “dial clockwise”; “dial counter-clockwise”, “set to position A, B … Q”, “push to activate” and so on. The new folded binding UI might help a bit here if using the bind-this-control function simply popped up the window with the right folder and control opened, highlighted, and filtered, but it can quite quickly become quite complicated.

 

 

In general a good idea, but it's questionable how helpful it would be outside of just the keyboard binds — knowing that my ADF frequency CW is bound to “BTN 31” doesn't say much. :D

 

Somewhat ironically, it would be the most helpful for the FC3 aircraft where you can't interact with the controls to begin with so there would be no hover spots that would show the information.

 

I just re-read your post Tippis.

Great points :thumbup:

I agree with them all.

I thought you were agreeing with Sharpe that this post was not necessary.

I don’t think your idea is unnecessary. Sure there could be some sort of pop up menu available for the tooltip.

I don’t think your idea is unnecessary. Sure there could be some sort of pop up menu available for the tooltip.

 

Oh, okay, Sorry for the misunderstanding SharpeXB :thumbup:

I agree that control assignment is also for me a big threshold. I only play in VR. So, have to assign everything to my hotas. Unfortunately I can play dcs not often enough to keep remembering the assignments. Button32 does not tell me where it is on my hotas.

So I have to use pdf images of my hotas with the button numbers. Not easy in vr. I have to switch between headset and monitor all the time.

 

I actually find the DCS system awesome for this sort of thing - if I haven't flown an aircraft for a while I will open up the key mapping screen and just run through my HOTAS buttons, button boxes etc, with each button press jumping the selection to that command in the list, to refresh my memory of what does what. Use VR also.

Interesting how ppl can have such different perspectives on something.

 

For example this isn't possible in IL-2 which makes it a nightmare to try and remember what is mapped to what. I generally have to just map something to a spare button - then hover over the tiny orange box to see what the confliction is to see what that command is actually mapped to that button lol - give me DCS system any day!

 

Also I find if you make an effort to standardise as many commands as possible it helps immensely, so gear is always the same switch for me regardless of aircraft.

I actually find the DCS system awesome for this sort of thing - if I haven't flown an aircraft for a while I will open up the key mapping screen and just run through my HOTAS buttons, button boxes etc, with each button press jumping the selection to that command in the list, to refresh my memory of what does what. Use VR also.

Interesting how ppl can have such different perspectives on something.

 

For example this isn't possible in IL-2 which makes it a nightmare to try and remember what is mapped to what. I generally have to just map something to a spare button - then hover over the tiny orange box to see what the confliction is to see what that command is actually mapped to that button lol - give me DCS system any day!

 

Also I find if you make an effort to standardise as many commands as possible it helps immensely, so gear is always the same switch for me regardless of aircraft.

 

The current mapping controls are good, yes, for checking buttons. But what is being asked for is a way to speed up the process, while in the cockpit on top of what is available now, as an option.

 

I don’t map the same button across all planes. I go for realism and if one switch in one plane is in one part of the cockpit, I put it in the corresponding place on the keyboard, and will place differently for another plane if it has it elsewhere.

I would like to see in the binding drop-down lists always the real aircraft HOTAS page. Some does have it, but some has it separated to throttle quadrant and stick.

 

But for the new modules it can be difficult to know what is where. Why it could as well be nice to have groupings by the cockpit sides. Like "left panel" etc.

 

For me each module bindings are super easy because VR. I only care one thing, and one thing only. Binding the real throttle and stick functions to my throttle and joystick and as much closely to real positions as possible.

 

Everything else is done in the cockpit with virtual hands. So the 3D modelers made cool looking virtual cockpit is my "simpit".

 

This has simplified a lot of the bindings comparing when I use to fly with TrackIR + HOTAS and display, and even more compared to flying with a keyboard + joystick combo. As no more do I need to care about multipliers, binding anything unrelated functions to throttle and stick that doesn't exist there, and it makes higher immersion when you need to actually move your hand around the cockpit to press buttons and flip switches.

 

Learning as well became far more easier as you learn by the muscle memory where something is around you, instead trying to remember a combination on HOTAS.

 

But as everyone can't gain that, it could be made as well easier.

 

We do have a already done 3D model of the cockpit. How about having a single button that would activate an overlay of each binding in the cockpit functions?

 

So when you look around, you would see that Gear Leveler has button "G" on it. And flaps switch has button F, Shift+F and Ctrl+F on each of them (sorry, don't anymore remember what was on keyboards other than enter was missiles, space bar was for gun and AltGr + Space was for something else too, as for me landing gear lever is the landing gear lever, a radio knob is the knob on radio panel, the master arm is the master arm switch or what ever powers weapons etc).

 

So one could just look around and see all the bindings, regardless do they fly in VR or desktop. No more printing papers, no pictures etc. And it should be possible to perform as well a quick binding from that system.

 

1) Press button to show all binding labels on every button, switch and knob in the cockpit.

2) Click any of the labels to enter direct binding recording mode.

3) Press the button/combination in your input hardware (keyboard, joystick etc)

4) Click elsewhere than any label to save the binding.

 

Now we would have a two direct visual information systems, to show what is behind what, and how to bind quickly your HOTAS.

 

This could as well IMHO be used by developers for assisting in learning the process of something. Like press a button to open a quick menu for a "How to...." interactive guides.

There would guides for things like:

 

How to start the aircraft

How to stop the aircraft

How to prepare for air refueling

How to prepare for carrier landing

etc.

 

And then it would use the interactive training functions by highlighting the switches/buttons with a numbered labels and timers. So that you will get directly the blinking symbol for the proper button/switch/knob and numbers that in what order you do these things.

 

 

It could be a quick "visual checklist" as well, that "In generator failure" you would get all switches and functions numbered and highlighted so that you can just check each of them in correct order.

 

Lots of learning is done by listening, seeing and repeating. And why it is still required to go to table list of all functions that is scary? It is nice it is there, as it is totally effective way to do things. But it should be alternative way to see what are bindings in cockpit than jump between cockpit and the main menu. Or bind functions by going to read labels in cockpit and then back to menu.

 

So let's just skip the menu.... Make it just alternative way to do things.

Now it should be "click switch in cockpit with mouse and then press button in your joystick".

 

 

Check the 1:45

I would like to see in the binding drop-down lists always the real aircraft HOTAS page. Some does have it, but some has it separated to throttle quadrant and stick.

 

But for the new modules it can be difficult to know what is where. Why it could as well be nice to have groupings by the cockpit sides. Like "left panel" etc.

 

For me each module bindings are super easy because VR. I only care one thing, and one thing only. Binding the real throttle and stick functions to my throttle and joystick and as much closely to real positions as possible.

 

Everything else is done in the cockpit with virtual hands. So the 3D modelers made cool looking virtual cockpit is my "simpit".

 

This has simplified a lot of the bindings comparing when I use to fly with TrackIR + HOTAS and display, and even more compared to flying with a keyboard + joystick combo. As no more do I need to care about multipliers, binding anything unrelated functions to throttle and stick that doesn't exist there, and it makes higher immersion when you need to actually move your hand around the cockpit to press buttons and flip switches.

 

Learning as well became far more easier as you learn by the muscle memory where something is around you, instead trying to remember a combination on HOTAS.

 

But as everyone can't gain that, it could be made as well easier.

 

We do have a already done 3D model of the cockpit. How about having a single button that would activate an overlay of each binding in the cockpit functions?

 

So when you look around, you would see that Gear Leveler has button "G" on it. And flaps switch has button F, Shift+F and Ctrl+F on each of them (sorry, don't anymore remember what was on keyboards other than enter was missiles, space bar was for gun and AltGr + Space was for something else too, as for me landing gear lever is the landing gear lever, a radio knob is the knob on radio panel, the master arm is the master arm switch or what ever powers weapons etc).

 

So one could just look around and see all the bindings, regardless do they fly in VR or desktop. No more printing papers, no pictures etc. And it should be possible to perform as well a quick binding from that system.

 

1) Press button to show all binding labels on every button, switch and knob in the cockpit.

2) Click any of the labels to enter direct binding recording mode.

3) Press the button/combination in your input hardware (keyboard, joystick etc)

4) Click elsewhere than any label to save the binding.

 

Now we would have a two direct visual information systems, to show what is behind what, and how to bind quickly your HOTAS.

 

This could as well IMHO be used by developers for assisting in learning the process of something. Like press a button to open a quick menu for a "How to...." interactive guides.

There would guides for things like:

 

How to start the aircraft

How to stop the aircraft

How to prepare for air refueling

How to prepare for carrier landing

etc.

 

And then it would use the interactive training functions by highlighting the switches/buttons with a numbered labels and timers. So that you will get directly the blinking symbol for the proper button/switch/knob and numbers that in what order you do these things.

 

 

It could be a quick "visual checklist" as well, that "In generator failure" you would get all switches and functions numbered and highlighted so that you can just check each of them in correct order.

 

Lots of learning is done by listening, seeing and repeating. And why it is still required to go to table list of all functions that is scary? It is nice it is there, as it is totally effective way to do things. But it should be alternative way to see what are bindings in cockpit than jump between cockpit and the main menu. Or bind functions by going to read labels in cockpit and then back to menu.

 

So let's just skip the menu.... Make it just alternative way to do things.

Now it should be "click switch in cockpit with mouse and then press button in your joystick".

 

 

Check the 1:45

 

It seems we have different needs this time. But Thanks very much Fri13 for your objective and detailed response again.

How long has DCS been around....over 10yrs? And we still don't have the ability to set up throttle AB detents correctly.....setting a user curve is very agricultural.