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Why is the Viper getting TWS before the Hornet?


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I don't think waiting for a week or two for Hornet tws implementation its not big deal IMHO. I've waited years since Lomac day for the Hornet. Besides TWS is not that great anyway. Its nice feature but I wont rely on it. Whats so fuss about it. Viper gets TWS first is fine for me. Hornet has DL, Ltws to counter it, 10 spamraams.... lol. Not big deal IMHO.

 

Just my 2 cents. Carry on gents...

Why do you assume that the hornet will get it a week or 2 after ? If ED continues in their logic to not pull the radar engineer from the F16 for efficiency sake we may get the TWS on the Hornet months after. Don't be so sure

 

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Well then here's mine, as an ED customer who bought the F-18.

 

 

 

When I bought it, the hype and marketing surrounding it made out the Hornet to be ED's flagship product, which made me think it would be their absolute priority and focus. The initial excitement eventually wore off as the months dragged on and key parts of the jet were still unfinished.

 

Even so, I told myself, "it's early access, that's just how this is going to go". And I patiently waited for ED to fully finish this flagship product.

 

 

 

I would have bet money if someone told me at the Hornet launch that ED would announce and then release a brand new jet...the Viper, of all iconic jets...in less then a year, while the Hornet sat unfinished. "No way", I would have told that person. They wouldn't just leave their flagship product on the sidelines! That's crazy.

 

If I had bet...I would be eating those dollar bills right now. Not only did ED go from announcement to release of a brand new airframe in less then a year, they did so while their shining star product took a backseat.

 

 

 

Despite assurances that the development of this new plane wouldn't impact the F-18 development in any way, shape or form, they pulled development support away from the Hornet so they could shove the Viper out the door. And now, after hearing that the Viper is getting features that the Hornet was supposed to have, it leaves a SUPER sour taste in my mouth.

 

 

 

If I had known back at the Hornet release what I know right now, I would have never purchased the Hornet. I paid ED money to help them develop and support the module the money was meant for...not to wait while ED staff is pulled off to sell another unfinished product.

 

 

 

If ED had the staff to fully develop two products at the same time, I would have no problem with that. But that's not the case, as we've clearly seen. ED doesn't have the capability to develop two products concurrently, and abandoning one, even temporarily, makes ED look greedy and incapable of delivering on their customers' investments.

 

 

 

So call me childish if you want....I really don't care about public perception. I'm a consumer who gave money to a company with the expectations my money would go towards a specific thing, and that thing would be the company's priority.

 

 

 

As NineLine said in a recent reddit post, neither product has a priority over the other, and that's why I regret buying the F-18 and also why I won't be purchasing anything else from Eagle Dynamics if this Early Access model is the way they continue to do business.

Thanks for expressing the frustration and disappointment of many.

I would add that the hornet was supposed to be the test bed of new technology such as AA... Now it's the opposite...

We end up having half-assed products: a TWS capable F16 but with basic IFF in the one hand and the other an IFF capable Hornet but handicapped by an RWS only radar making both planes not combat competitive.

 

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Why do you assume that the hornet will get it a week or 2 after ? If ED continues in their logic to not pull the radar engineer from the F16 for efficiency sake we may get the TWS on the Hornet months after. Don't be so sure

 

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Exactly. If it is only a couple of weeks, not such a big deal, but I think a lot of us worry that it is going to be much longer.

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Why do you assume that the hornet will get it a week or 2 after ? If ED continues in their logic to not pull the radar engineer from the F16 for efficiency sake we may get the TWS on the Hornet months after. Don't be so sure

 

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Why do you assume that it will not? ;)

''Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction.''

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Why do you assume that it will not? ;)
Because none from ED said that it will be in 1 or 2 weeks. If you come with a number it's on you to prove your claim. Without any statement of ED, you are purely speculating.

On the other hand, if ED says that they will keep the single radar engineer on the F16 radar is more efficient, then it is a strong indication that he will do exactly that !

 

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Honestly ED should stop doing early access at all. The community just can't handle it. Give out the stable version only and only fully released modules.

Maybe beta versions, but only for people who apply for it and get checked. With the option to kick them out of the beta program, when they don't support the product.

 

 

My problem has never been early access. I have never complained about anything released in early access unless some disaster befell it. My problem (as is I am sure will reverberate with many users here) is that after years of waiting on fixes, and promised never kept on several modules, I just gave up on caring. Many people here have been supporting ED for over a decade and have watched module after module come out partially incomplete with promises of greatness. So we sat and waited. We watched other modules get released that were much more complex than previous modules while simple fixes and promises are forgotten on many of the "completed" modules. It is possible that many of these people are on some level reflecting their previous experiences with ED when they panic or complain. I just stopped bothering. Mind you I stopped buying also. I completely understand the angst of the people complaining. And while I gave up on trying to get the fixes and promises, it is no less frustrating watching the trend continue. I have not purchased a module since before the Yak. I'm not angry. Frustrated maybe but not angry. Nor am I trying to punish ED. The bottom line is that if you aren't happy with a product, you just don't buy it any more. I think that many here have reached that threshold. People complaining is bothersome and comes off as whining, but many here have been all through this time and time again with module after module. I get it. :thumbup:

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I believe that TWS may already be operational on the F18 radar, but for some reason or interest ED has decided to incorporate it 1st in the Viper and then take it to the Hornet. These supposed decisions can only be answered by the person responsible for directing the project, and at the moment in this thread no one has been pronounced who is in charge and for that reason it seems strange to me how they handle all this ED with their clients, those who We have paid in advance, we are part of the financing of these projects until they are finished, and I do not know to what extent they should be more informative ED with the community that supports part of these projects with their money in the long term.

 

I want to clarify that it is only a personal opinion with a bit of speculation :smilewink:

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A lot of weeping childs here. I'm always been critical of ED choices and of the fact It seems they do not have a clear and straight plan on what to do. But I'm not a developer, this is by far the most complex consumer level flight simulator available and in the last few years they are moving from a platform with two modules (a-10c and ka-50) to a complex environment with dozens of fully simulated airplanes. Maybe, to maintain all of this, some changes on the go are necessary. They always stated a complex module needs 3 to 5 years to be completed. If their choices are aimed at finding a way to accelerate this process (and with dozens of modules this seems to be necessary), then I'm ok with It, and you too should.

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But being Honest is also keeping your word, which ED doesn't do. :D :D :D :D They only make choices that make money and send out good old lies to the rest of us.

 

No being honest is updating everyone when the change was made.

 

and everything is subject to change.

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If everything is subject to change then why make false promises?

 

 

No one promised you or anyone else anything, it will be ready when its ready! We're talking about a W.I.P feature for a module that is still in Early Access, everything is subject to change!

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Wow, what a lot of drama, at least the A/A radar works. What about the A/G radar? Now that's worth getting upset about... :music_whistling:

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and everything is subject to change.

 

BIGNEWY, while I understand that the development cycle of different modules in parallel may lead to taking development decisions such as the recent TWS one, I think that ED is using that catchphrase quite broadly.

 

If everything is subject to change then nothing would protect us, the EA customer, from ED just deciding to stop development on an EA module and calling it a final version on its current state.

 

As such, I think that some general guidelines should be stablished on what is guaranteed at the time of an EA release, also maybe including reassuring the customer that later developed modules wont be getting features before such 1 year EA module gets them.

 

That said, I can easily live without TWS (I barely have time for DCS lately anyway). But the recent events are breaking my trust on the EA system, like I'm sure is happening to many others, and if ED depends on the EA sales for profitability as recently stated on reddit, this harms both the fanbase and ED itself.

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BIGNEWY, while I understand that the development cycle of different modules in parallel may lead to taking development decisions such as the recent TWS one, I think that ED is using that catchphrase quite broadly.

 

If everything is subject to change then nothing would protect us, the EA customer, from ED just deciding to stop development on an EA module and calling it a final version on its current state.

 

As such, I think that some general guidelines should be stablished on what is guaranteed at the time of an EA release, also maybe including reassuring the customer that later developed modules wont be getting features before such 1 year EA module gets them.

 

That said, I can easily live without TWS (I barely have time for DCS lately anyway). But the recent events are breaking my trust on the EA system, like I'm sure is happening to many others, and if ED depends on the EA sales for profitability as recently stated on reddit, this harms both the fanbase and ED itself.

 

Just to correct you,

 

Development has never stopped, some team members where moved to help with the viper launch. But development had not stopped on the hornet.

 

thanks

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Development has never stopped, some team members where moved to help with the viper launch. But development had not stopped on the hornet.

 

I know, I didn't say that... or I didn't intend to mean that at least.

 

I just meant that by overusing the "everything is subject to change" excuse, that example of completely ceasing development of an EA product could be an (extreme) situation that could also be justified by using that reasoning. I think that both ED and its customers would benefit from having a public well structured set of guidelines of how an EA product is going to progress throughout EA with some guarantees.

 

As an example of what I mean: I'm pretty sure that noone expected the Viper to get TWS before the Hornet when they bought their EA Hornet.

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I know, I didn't say that... or I didn't intend to mean that at least.

 

I just meant that by overusing the "everything is subject to change" excuse, that example of completely ceasing development of an EA product could be an (extreme) situation that could also be justified by using that reasoning. I think that both ED and its customers would benefit from having a public well structured set of guidelines of how an EA product is going to progress throughout EA with some guarantees.

 

As an example of what I mean: I'm pretty sure that noone expected the Viper to get TWS before the Hornet when they bought their EA Hornet.

 

Why? Most parts of F-18 come earlier than F-16 now. I don’t see any one praise devs for that. But just in one feature F-16 may come earlier than F-18 and you criticism on that? Why you care what feature F-16 will have if you don’t buy it?

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I don't think waiting for a week or two for Hornet tws implementation its not big deal IMHO. I've waited years since Lomac day for the Hornet. Besides TWS is not that great anyway. Its nice feature but I wont rely on it. Whats so fuss about it. Viper gets TWS first is fine for me. Hornet has DL, Ltws to counter it, 10 spamraams.... lol. Not big deal IMHO.

 

Just my 2 cents. Carry on gents...

 

I think you hit the nail in the head here, although I would go further.

 

At this point this complaining about TWS is not rational anymore. We have people complaining about a three-letter acronym that they would seldom use over other features once it is released. However what these same people do not acknowledge is that they have no other option. ED's is the only one in the business, and that is because the market for it is extremely small. Therefore, instead of getting into the blame game that is so popular nowadays, we must support each other to keep this passion alive.

 

There are companies out there that have to charge montly to survive, or constantly release "expansions", "DLCs", "loot boxes", "cosmetics" or whatever to keep the boat afloat. Somehow I don't see ED's margins being huge and the devs and CEO vacationing on a beach for 3 months a year... But also I know that even if ED charged for more lets say to hire more people, pouring more hands into a software of this complexity wouldn't make it go faster... Its not like making "Fortnite skins" or content like that which can be hugely parallelized.

 

So I see people saying "I won't buy from ED anymore", fine. Go ahead. But you are only making our hobby harder to survive.

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