True or feature missing in EA

When i guide AIM-7 with STT and change for Sidewinder (without breaking the lock) AIM-7 is lost immediately. Exactly at the moment i change the weapon.

Is this correct or it's a missing feature in EA?

I assume it's a missing feature but want to be sure before posting it in a bug section and wasting developers time.

 

(It is not the case with i.e. low fidelity FC3 F-15C)

 

 

About similar avionics and similar Hughes/Ratheon radar F-15C MSIPII from mid 1980s:

Using a button on the stick, the pilot could “uncage” the missile (AIM-9) seeker head, confirm a selftrack in the HUD and launch the weapon without taking his radar (which was needed

to support AIM-7s in flight) off another target, thus achieving two “kills” during one pass.

"Osprey Duel 72 - F-15C Eagle vs. MiG-23 and MiG-25" Douglas C. Dildy, Tom Cooper

 

Solved, works as intended

Edited March 19, 2020 by bies

Very good and interesting question!

This thread explains it a few posts in: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=266547

 

In short, it isn't feasible to simultaneously juggle a BVR and a WVR target. The lack of capability in the Hornet is very likely simply a result of the radar-A2A weapon selection logic. There's no point for the MD or Boeing software engineers to develop a whole new logic for a very unlikely scenario.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Harker

Are you talking about the LOST cue in the HUD? or is the Sparrow actually losing track?

Actually, I might've misunderstood OP's question. If you're STT on a target, you should retain that STT between different weapon radar profiles, unless you enter ACM mode.

 

BTW, I ran a little test. I fired a Sparrow at a target and as it was guiding, I switched to Sidewinders. The radar maintained the target in STT with MPRF (correct), but the Sparrow still guided to the target. I think the latter is incorrect, since the AIM-7 requires the radar to operate in PDI in order to track to the target.

I take everything back!

 

Yesterday AIM-7 was losing track not due to changing weapon but due to low speed difference, i chased targets with low relative speed.

 

Today i've checked in a detailed way.

I can confirm it is possible to fire AIM-7 to one target with STT, than select to AIM-9, cage it's heat seeker to second target without breaking the lock to the first and hit both targets.

 

In some situation even three-four targets - one with Sparrow and two-three with Sidewinders, but it's really usefull due to helmet sight, idk if i can move uncaged AIM-9 seeker without the helmet.

 

So it works like in F-15C MSIPII.

 

The topic is clarified.

Edited March 19, 2020 by bies

Flood mode my dude.

Flood mode my dude.

 

Flood mode is completely different story, but it also works as intended, still you need significant closure rate.

I take everything back!

 

Yesterday AIM-7 was losing track not due to changing weapon but due to low speed difference, i chased targets with low relative speed.

 

Today i've checked in a detailed way.

I can confirm it is possible to shoot AIM-7 to one target with STT, than select to AIM-9, cage it's heat seeker to second target without breaking the lock to the first and hit both targets.

 

In specific situation even three targets, but it's really usefull due to helmet sight, idk if i can move uncaged AIM-9 seeker without the helmet.

 

So it works like in F-15C MSIPII.

 

The topic is clarified.

Yeah, but the AIM-7 is not supposed to guide once the radar exits PDI, which happens when you switch to Sidewinders. You see the radar maintain STT, but change to MED, so it shouldn't be able to guide the Sparrow any longer. It's probably a bug.

Yeah, but the AIM-7 is not supposed to guide once the radar exits PDI, which happens when you switch to Sidewinders. You see the radar maintain STT, but change to MED, so it shouldn't be able to guide the Sparrow any longer. It's probably a bug.

 

If so - change of PRF when you select AIM-9 during AIM-7 guidance is a bug.

Selection of AIM-9 didn't interrupt AIM-7 guidance IRL, at least in F-15.

 

EDIT:

I've checked, STT is changing from INT to MED automatically at 4 miles and closer, regerdless of missile selected and is perfectly able to guide AIM-7 at MED prf at close range.

If you select AIM-9 when AIM-7 is being guided at long range STT will change to HI/INT, not to MED to not compromise long range AIM-7 guidance.

It seems correct.

Edited March 19, 2020 by bies

If so - change of PRF when you select AIM-9 during AIM-7 guidance is a bug.

 

Selection of AIM-9 didn't interrupt AIM-7 guidance IRL, at least in F-15.

I don't know about the exact specifics, but the F-15 and the F-18 don't use the same radar. The F-15 you're referring to probably had the APG-63, whiles our Hornet has the APG-73 and previous Hornets had the APG-65. The radar logic might be different between the two airframes.

 

What you're saying is indeed technically possible, the question is if it actually works like that in the real jet. Based on the way that radar modes are coded in the Hornet and from reading around, I'd say that the capability isn't there, but I could be wrong.

PRF shouldn't be able to be changed by operator action in STT, but seeing as the Sparrow still tracks, I'd say this is a relatively minor/visual bug

STT in MPRF or HPRF isn't specifically relevant to Sparrow guidance, the radar needs to be transmitting PDI for the Sparrow to guide on the target. If the radar drops PDI the Sparrow will loose the track, regardless of PRF mode.

 

There does seem to be a bug where the Hornet's radar display stops indicating PDI in some conditions even though it is in fact still guiding a Sparrow. It seems to simply be an indicator error on the attack radar page.

STT in MPRF or HPRF isn't specifically relevant to Sparrow guidance, the radar needs to be transmitting PDI for the Sparrow to guide on the target. If the radar drops PDI the Sparrow will loose the track, regardless of PRF mode.

 

There does seem to be a bug where the Hornet's radar display stops indicating PDI in some conditions even though it is in fact still guiding a Sparrow. It seems to simply be an indicator error on the attack radar page.

My question is, is it the way you describe it or the other way around, as in the radar indeed exits PDI, but the Sparrow is still being guided when it shouldn't? Furthermore, the latter raises the question, is PDI indeed simulated as a radar mode in the DCS Hornet or is the Sparrow guided by a simple STT lock and the PDI indication is just a visual (as in "If Weapon=AIM-7 and Radar mode=STT, display PDI in place of PRF)?

I'm going to have to try this out. I started a thread not long ago that dealt with this (among other) issues. The consensus I received from that thread was that it should not be possible. Now I'm not so sure. The behavior of the sparrow is so erratic that sometimes I can't tell if I lose lock due to something I did myself, something the enemy does, or something I am misunderstanding.

 

Whatever the truth is, I hope it gets simulated properly. If it's not possible, then this is a bug.

 

Of course, there was also a lot of conversation about the fact that you should not find yourself in a position that requires this capability. Unless we're talking about AIM-120s using TWS, the hornet should not be engaging multiple targets simultaneously.