DCS Carrier Discussion

A moving aircraft.

With modeled landing gear suspension.

On a moving elevator.

On a moving aircraft carrier.

That's pitching and rolling in the water.

 

 

The coding required to make this even remotely function:helpsmilie:

14 yrs as a software engineer and I wouldn't even know where to begin. To say SC is a major technical accomplishment is a huge understatement. Hats off to the codebangers at ED :worthy:

Strange, none of the English you-tubers show us the elevator function.

He found it by accident. And it seems not be a "function" at this stage

He's also the first youtuber I've seen to correctly set stabilizer trim for the catapult.

None of the English speakers have yet to figure this out. Not even the ones that make official trailers for ED/TFC:megalol:

+1. I'd love to have a English version of a decent carrier review video.

Growling Sidewinder - Youtube

I noticed on Redkite's SC video that when he was doing a Case III approach the ICLS needles and the IFLOS didn't match at all. Hope ED knows this issue.

Are you still required to fly the ball in CASE III with low visib?

Yes

Are you still required to fly the ball in CASE III with low visib?

Yes. Once you call the ball you transition from flying the instruments to flying the IFLOLS.

Couple of critiques, understanding full well, like most DCS products, Super Carrier's in a continuous mode of development:

- The catapult director (enlisted yellowshirt) never hands off control to the shooter (officer yellowshirt) like he should. As with all things on the flight deck, until the aircraft has actually been handed off to someone else, the last person in charge remains in charge.

- Likewise, before the hand-off, the director never relays the signal to the catapult operator to put tension on the catapult. This signal constitutes one arm pointing down the runway, while the opposite arm stands up at a 90-degree angle. Once the "hookup man" clears away from the plane, then the director hands off control to the shooter.

- What's with all the personnel standing on the port side of the flight deck, some in front of the FLOLS, during recovery?

Other than that, I'm totally blown away. The attention to detail is insane. It's not even an aircraft but this might be DCS' finest module yet and we all know it's only getting better!

Yes. Once you call the ball you transition from flying the instruments to flying the IFLOLS.

So if you have a couple of feet of visibility they will ask you to fly the ball? See what I'm saying now? That can't be right. Additionally, all the videos I see have a very disturbing difference between the ICLS and the IFLOS, which totally kills the procedure and makes you wonder which system you can trust.

Holy crap! The SC is on sale for $32Cdn right now. It cost me $51Cdn when I pre-ordered it back in early February.

 

 

I thought it was supposed to be a better deal to buy early.

 

mumble... grumble...

Just got it for $22.49 used the code "Mover" for an extra 10% discount.

See Movers wicked awesome channel here: https://www.youtube.com/user/cwlemoine

So if you have a couple of feet of visibility they will ask you to fly the ball? See what I'm saying now? That can't be right. Additionally, all the videos I see have a very disturbing difference between the ICLS and the IFLOS, which totally kills the procedure and makes you wonder which system you can trust.

IRL procedures:

You will be asked to call the ball. If you can't see it you say "clara." If you can't see the ship you say "clara ship." Conditions have to be relatively bad to get to that.

If you say clara or clara ship, Paddles will give you a talkdown until you can see the ball. All you need to say then is "ball." You'll get a "roger ball" and though Paddles isn't required to talk you down anymore, they'll probably continue.

If you call clara or clara ship and Paddles can't see you, you will be told "continue" in which case you will descend to the approach minimums (TACAN, ICLS, ACLS, whatever the lowest is for what you have). If no ball or no Paddles contact at minimums, waveoff. That situation is extremely rare. I have only seen it once.

When the weather is bad where there will be clara calls or Paddles may have a hard time seeing the jet, "99, taxi lights on"will be announced on the radio. With the taxi light on, that SIGNIFICANTLY increases the odds of Paddles seeing you in poor visibility and they can wave you that way. That is why the situation where Paddles says continue and then you have to waveoff at minimums is so exceedingly rare.

IRL procedures:

 

 

 

You will be asked to call the ball. If you can't see it you say "clara." If you can't see the ship you say "clara ship." Conditions have to be relatively bad to get to that.

 

 

If you say clara or clara ship, Paddles will give you a talkdown until you can see the ball. All you need to say then is "ball." You'll get a "roger ball" and though Paddles isn't required to talk you down anymore, they'll probably continue.

 

 

If you call clara or clara ship and Paddles can't see you, you will be told "continue" in which case you will descend to the approach minimums (TACAN, ICLS, ACLS, whatever the lowest is for what you have). If no ball or no Paddles contact at minimums, waveoff. That situation is extremely rare. I have only seen it once.

 

 

When the weather is bad where there will be clara calls or Paddles may have a hard time seeing the jet, "99, taxi lights on"will be announced on the radio. With the taxi light on, that SIGNIFICANTLY increases the odds of Paddles seeing you in poor visibility and they can wave you that way. That is why the situation where Paddles says continue and then you have to waveoff at minimums is so exceedingly rare.

Hey, thanks for the IRL procedures detail. I don't see why you say that this conditions would be rare. The ocean is a very humid place and low visibility is very common. There are many videos online of carrer landings in low visibility conditions. Thanks.

Hey, thanks for the IRL procedures detail. I don't see why you say that this conditions would be rare. The ocean is a very humid place and low visibility is very common. There are many videos online of carrer landings in low visibility conditions. Thanks.

Just detailing my experience from my time on the ocean. For every low vis video on YouTube, there’s 50 high vis videos that never got recorded.

Again, even if the vis is less than 3/4 mile, the ship and IFLOLS could be visible with its bright lights. Vis less than 3/4 of a mile is just not very common.

Vis has to be wayyyy more severe than even that for LSOs to not even see the taxi light.

If you mean low vis (1ish mile visibility or better), that is no problem.

Enjoyed the discussion!

Just detailing my experience from my time on the ocean. For every low vis video on YouTube, there’s 50 high vis videos that never got recorded.

 

Again, even if the vis is less than 3/4 mile, the ship and IFLOLS could be visible with its bright lights. Vis less than 3/4 of a mile is just not very common.

 

Vis has to be wayyyy more severe than even that for LSOs to not even see the taxi light.

 

If you mean low vis (1ish mile visibility or better), that is no problem.

 

Enjoyed the discussion!

Hey GB. Roger. Something I didn't understand was the thing about the taxi light. Afaik there is only a landing light switch in the hornet and my understanding as a pilot (only civilian) is that during any CASE III you would already have that on. What am I missing here?

I get the sense that a lot of people that aren't close to RL aviation don't have a solid concept of aviation weather. They believe that weather has 2 general states, "good" and "bad."

"Good" is CAVOK no problems with operation.

"Bad" is basically 0/0.

There's really no desire to consider the concepts of visibility, minimum, ceilings, etc...

Take this statement.

The ocean is a very humid place and low visibility is very common.

This same mentality permeates discussion of instrument procedures for land fields too. No such thing as minimums, visibility, ceilings, etc. People have the idea that an ILS is good down to 0/0 ("bad weather") and they expect to operate like that... TACAN approaches apparently can't work because they can't work in 0/0. Users will set a waypoint on the runway threshold and attempt to land in "bad weather" (0/0).

Hey GB. Roger. Something I didn't understand was the thing about the taxi light. Afaik there is only a landing light switch in the hornet and my understanding as a pilot (only civilian) is that during any CASE III you would already have that on. What am I missing here?

The taxi light is the same thing as the landing light.

Case 1/2, the jet will not have any lights on from startup to shutdown; the pinky switch will be aft.

Case 3, the jet will turn all lights on via the pinky switch just prior to catapult launch, and then all of them off once the jet stops on the trap. The exception is the taxi light. That is never on at the carrier with only a couple of exceptions.

Exception 1: a jet with radio failure will flash the taxi light to indicate the failure to Paddles.

Exception 2: Visibility deteriorates to the point where Paddles directs all planes to turn on the taxi lights.

The taxi light is the same thing as the landing light.

 

Case 1/2, the jet will not have any lights on from startup to shutdown; the pinky switch will be aft.

 

Case 3, the jet will turn all lights on via the pinky switch just prior to catapult launch, and then all of them off once the jet stops on the trap. The exception is the taxi light. That is never on at the carrier with only a couple of exceptions.

 

Exception 1: a jet with radio failure will flash the taxi light to indicate the failure to Paddles.

 

Exception 2: Visibility deteriorates to the point where Paddles directs all planes to turn on the taxi lights.

Planes don't land on the carrier with the landing lights on at night?

Years ago (no YT then:D) I've seen a vid made by a Tomcat pilot showing the situation GB described, the thing with the taxi lights. After 'clara' call and hitting the minimums the guy was just about to add power and go around then... 'paddles contact, little right for line up, little power back on'. They could see his taxi lights. All of a sudden, barely... couple of jets on the left, couple on the right, ball and the 4 wire:smoke:

I get the sense that a lot of people that aren't close to RL aviation don't have a solid concept of aviation weather. They believe that weather has 2 general states, "good" and "bad."

"Good" is CAVOK no problems with operation.

"Bad" is basically 0/0.

There's really no desire to consider the concepts of visibility, minimum, ceilings, etc...

 

 

Take this statement.

This apparently means 0/0. Either the visibility is nice on the ocean, or the visibility is 0. No in-between. No, "It's 1/2sm fog." Thus the idea of flying in fog and visually sighting the ball and ship at 1/2sm is irrelevant. If it's not 0 it's not relevant apparently.

 

 

This same mentality permeates discussion of instrument procedures for land fields too. No such thing as minimums, visibility, ceilings, etc. People have the idea that an ILS is good down to 0/0 ("bad weather") and they expect to operate like that... TACAN approaches apparently can't work because they can't work in 0/0. Users will set a waypoint on the runway threshold and attempt to land in "bad weather" (0/0).

Yeah, with more than 3000 hours I should be more specific in these forums, my apologies. I just didn't think anyone would understand that much, but it looks you are very keen in the subject.

Snip...

I agree with you, but it might have been just easier to draw the conclusion that a lot of people haven't been at see in bad weather. Or even that a lot of people have never really thought of the visibility in any weather wherever they are.

So guys, pay attention next time you wander outside!

Also, though I'm not a real pilot, after living in Norway for close to 50 years, spending trips to my family's cabins in the mountains or "summer" houses at the sea, no matter time of year. I can tell you that visibility on the ocean by far is better than up in the mountains at a 1000m in "bad" weather. All the while we Norwegians say, no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing.

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

Yeah, with more than 3000 hours I should be more specific in these forums, my apologies.

If you have 3,000 hours then you really shouldn't be surprised by electronic and visual path guidance that don't match. That's an incredibly common situation on land airports. Why would this be a big issue at the sea?

Not saying it's correct (no idea if that's the case) but that shouldn't be surprising.

And it should be fairly easy for you to comprehend the "transition to visual" that G B's describing.

Why do you think the rules are different at sea? If you don't see the required references at DA/MDA you go missed...

If you have 3,000 hours then you really shouldn't be surprised by electronic and visual path guidance that don't match. That's an incredibly common situation on land airports. Why would this be a big issue at the sea?

Not saying it's correct (no idea if that's the case) but that shouldn't be surprising.

And it should be fairly easy for you to comprehend the "transition to visual" that G B's describing.

 

 

Why do you think the rules are different at sea? If you don't see the required references at DA/MDA you go missed...

I can be surprised of whatever I feel like, sir. Whats the matter with you today? Take it easy. If I feel I have doubts of sea and carrier operation, then I can ask here, hopefully without any clown telling me what I should or should not know. GB was kindly explaining what I didn't understand, if you don't have anything useful to write, then please stay out of my way. I'm fairly new at the forums but these guys are the ones that get new customers away.

LOL, does every thread of this sort have to end anal?

If you have 3,000 hours then you really shouldn't be surprised by electronic and visual path guidance that don't match. That's an incredibly common situation on land airports. Why would this be a big issue at the sea?

Not saying it's correct (no idea if that's the case) but that shouldn't be surprising.

And it should be fairly easy for you to comprehend the "transition to visual" that G B's describing.

 

 

Why do you think the rules are different at sea? If you don't see the required references at DA/MDA you go missed...

IFLOS and ICLS that don't match IRL it's OK, but DCS is not simulating real life technical difficulties, it is just bugged. If you don't see a land runway at DA (PA) or MDA (NPA) then you do MA and possibly go to alternate AP. In the ocean you don't really have many choices to go to, so I was trying to learn how it is done IRL and assumed it was nothing like civilian/land operations. Capisce now?