FFB Curves just adds deadzone rather than curves

So, I got to playing around with the FFB curves setting today and it's really not making the stick any less sensitive.

What it is doing is creating a deadzone, and the bigger you set the FFB curves, the bigger the deadzone, and when you reach the end of the deadzone it's just as touchy as it is without them.

I'm going to make a quick video to demonstrate. The controls indicator still moves the diamond although the aircraft is completely unresponsive until you hit the edge of the deadzone.

If video is blurry it's because you're reading this just after I uploaded and it needs time to process @1080p and 4k

Please don't take this as a lack of appreciation for your efforts to give FFB users some long needed axis tuning options, I'm just hoping you guys can link this to axis curves rather than deadzones.

ummm no at least that's not how it is for me, I don't use FFB and also I don't use a "joystick" as such.

The problem with dead zones is for me they extend the amount of movement of input device until something happens in the model.

For me I wouldn't normally use that much physical input, especially on cyclic, Just saying. :D

uI don't use FFB and also I don't use a "joystick" as such.

Just saying. :D

The thread is about the FFB Curves setting in the "special" options menu for the sa342. It was an attempt from P-Chop to allow Force feedback joystick users like the msffb2 sensitivity curve settings, and it's just making a deadzone instead.

Whether or not they are already aware of this or whether there's something they could do about it is all I posted for.

It's been an ongoing thing with DCS. FFB users can't adjust sensitivity curves in the axis menus or it throws off the position of the stick when trimmed.

This was intended to be a work around specifically for the SA342 module, however a deadzone doesn't do what "Curves" do. I was barely touching the stick in the first flight of that video, I had to pull halfway through each axis to get a response using the FFB Curves setting @ 50% in the second flight. What is preferred is a less sensitive response I.E. curve not a complete lack of response I.E. Deadzone.

You do not use a force feedback input device, so pardon me for asking, what's your point of posting in this thread about a setting which has no relevance to you?

I'm just hoping P-Chop still has another trick up their sleeve when they take a look at it. It'd make a lot of FFB users happy, and give us something to point out to other devs is possible. And for all I know it might not be. The implementation of this setting in the first place makes a guy hopeful is all.

makes me wonder if ED or 3rd party devs could IF/THEN their way to a lower overall sensitivity for the g940's and msffb2's of the world, or at least adjust the axis to match the shorter throw of available FFB sticks.

Do you get somewhat normal flight without the curves set?

I tried the curves after I found the "normal" FFB flying to be very jagged, with the chopper roughly snapping into certain angles rather than incrementally changing pitch/roll.

Changing the curves only achieved to - as you say - introduce a massive deadzone, so instead of a small amount of nothing followed by a rough snap to an angle, it turned into a *very* long throw with nothing happening and then a *huge* snap to a sharp angle, making it even worse.

I turned off FFB and used SimFFB instead, much better.

The thread is about the FFB Curves setting in the "special" options menu for the sa342. It was an attempt from P-Chop to allow Force feedback joystick users like the msffb2 sensitivity curve settings, and it's just making a deadzone instead.

 

Whether or not they are already aware of this or whether there's something they could do about it is all I posted for.

 

It's been an ongoing thing with DCS. FFB users can't adjust sensitivity curves in the axis menus or it throws off the position of the stick when trimmed.

 

This was intended to be a work around specifically for the SA342 module, however a deadzone doesn't do what "Curves" do. I was barely touching the stick in the first flight of that video, I had to pull halfway through each axis to get a response using the FFB Curves setting @ 50% in the second flight. What is preferred is a less sensitive response I.E. curve not a complete lack of response I.E. Deadzone.

 

You do not use a force feedback input device, so pardon me for asking, what's your point of posting in this thread about a setting which has no relevance to you?

 

I'm just hoping P-Chop still has another trick up their sleeve when they take a look at it. It'd make a lot of FFB users happy, and give us something to point out to other devs is possible. And for all I know it might not be. The implementation of this setting in the first place makes a guy hopeful is all.

 

makes me wonder if ED or 3rd party devs could IF/THEN their way to a lower overall sensitivity for the g940's and msffb2's of the world, or at least adjust the axis to match the shorter throw of available FFB sticks.

Yes there has been a lot talk about FFB and the Gazelle, I'm also somewhat interested in FFB and following the DYI implementation for FFB also on this forum although there are a number of stumbling blocks with that project. :(

I don't know if you have seen these threads re FFB and Gazelle.

Statement from PC re FFB back in March

A write up of FFB joysticks with Gazelle.

Do you get somewhat normal flight without the curves set?

 

I tried the curves after I found the "normal" FFB flying to be very jagged, with the chopper roughly snapping into certain angles rather than incrementally changing pitch/roll.

 

Changing the curves only achieved to - as you say - introduce a massive deadzone, so instead of a small amount of nothing followed by a rough snap to an angle, it turned into a *very* long throw with nothing happening and then a *huge* snap to a sharp angle, making it even worse.

 

I turned off FFB and used SimFFB instead, much better.

"Somewhat normal" yes. Just a quite a bit too touchy. Which is true for all of the helo's in DCS trying to utilize FFB for force trim imo. So again I appreciate P-chop trying to address this, and hope they're actually on to some way to apply actual curves with proper FFB positioning rather than a deadzone

I have other joysticks to use if I didn't want to make use of the FFB. It's all about that force trim.. which.. feels unnatural in the gazelle after flying the Ka-50 or the huey. Lol I've read through the sa341 manual hoping it spoke more about how the Force trim works, but it doesn't really say alot. So I'm taking P-chops word for it. It's not the trimming to attitude that bothers me anyway. Just how touchy the stick is. I can't say I'm too fond of flying helos without FFB.

I don't have the Gazelle, nor fly with a FFB stick, but I remember reading in another thread (I believe the first one posted by FragBum) that the special FFB options made by PC was a rather simplified thing, and that they basically given up on it due to being more complex than motivated businesswise. They kept the implementation already present for anyone finding it helpful.

But I might have misread the meassage though.

"Somewhat normal" yes. Just a quite a bit too touchy. Which is true for all of the helo's in DCS trying to utilize FFB for force trim imo. So again I appreciate P-chop trying to address this, and hope they're actually on to some way to apply actual curves with proper FFB positioning rather than a deadzone

 

I have other joysticks to use if I didn't want to make use of the FFB. It's all about that force trim.. which.. feels unnatural in the gazelle after flying the Ka-50 or the huey. Lol I've read through the sa341 manual hoping it spoke more about how the Force trim works, but it doesn't really say alot. So I'm taking P-chops word for it. It's not the trimming to attitude that bothers me anyway. Just how touchy the stick is. I can't say I'm too fond of flying helos without FFB.

From the sound of their "we're gonna fix what is there but not develop FFB further" I don't think we'll ever get stick trim a la KA50/Huey.

If they get around to looking at the curves Id *much* rather see a saturation slider instead, since you'll barely ever yank the stick to use the last 20-40% (except aerobatics) and won't face the distortion of linear input to non-linear output.

But, in lieu of a working force trim, there are other quirks that an FFB stick allows. I'm flying with 100% dampening, 100% friction and 25% centering, resulting in a non-centering stick (isn't it like that IRL?), a stiff stick without a spring making it hard to yank but easy to hold, to the point of barely even needing to use force trim at all.

I'd recommend trying it out, coupled with no curve/saturation restrictions (I run 70% saturation myself) it feels pretty damn good and not overly twitchy at all.

Pretty sure you can't set curves on an ffb stick.

Pretty sure you can't set curves on an ffb stick.

Normally, no, any deadzone, curve or saturation disables the FFB, but in the Gazelle special menu theres' sliders specifically for FFB sticks.