Valve Index - new HMD in May

Update: Seems to be shipping on June 15th

 

See https://uploadvr.com/valve-index-vr-headset-listed-on-steam-apparent-june-15-ship-date/

Interesting, but I note recommended specs for GPU is a GTX970 same as original rift, reverb recommended GPU is GTX1070; So I'm not holding my breath for a huge leap in resolution over the Rift with the Index.

On that basis alone, and lacking any other hard information re Index before Reverb is launched; I will most likely order the Reverb.

And then possibly repent at leisure. I'm lucky like that.

Man I am definitely becoming more interested in this headset, may well be my next one to replace Rift CV1.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/1/18291013/valve-index-vr-headset-product-page-early-launch-date

Display Port 1.2 confirmed, so they can't have more than 1600p at 90Hz.

Still will be probably the best and more balanced HMD, if we take into account tracking quality and controllers, but for DCS I thing HP Reverv will be better.

Interesting, but I note recommended specs for GPU is a GTX970 same as original rift, reverb recommended GPU is GTX1070; So I'm not holding my breath for a huge leap in resolution over the Rift with the Index.

 

On that basis alone, and lacking any other hard information re Index before Reverb is launched; I will most likely order the Reverb.

 

And then possibly repent at leisure. I'm lucky like that.

I thought Reverb minimum was 1080? I know that one of the reviewers was told a 1070 would be ‘ok’ but ‘ok’ and DCS doesn’t sound good...

I'd guess that they mean 'with properly optimised software a 1070 should do fine.' DCS is still on a journey for VR performance, so shouldn't be taken as an example of what is typical. It's good that ED seem to believe in VR though, at least they are putting dev time into improvements.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/1/18291013/valve-index-vr-headset-product-page-early-launch-date

 

Display Port 1.2 confirmed, so they can't have more than 1600p at 90Hz.

 

Still will be probably the best and more balanced HMD, if we take into account tracking quality and controllers, but for DCS I thing HP Reverv will be better.

Nope. It will be most likely be higher. The circuitry analysis of the leaked PCB pictures shows DP 1.4 signal processor chips. I guess Valve just listed the bare minimum spec to run it, which will be DP 1.2 but that does not necessarily mean it unleashes the full potential.

I think resolution will be on par with or better than the Reverb. You can run these at half res and have the HMD to some scaling methinks, which would solve the bandwidth problem for the lesser DP revisions.

Also, this is Valve's own thing, everything we know about all the previous stuff with HTC etc does not apply here. And they want to make it the launch platform for the next Half Life in all likelihood. Valve don't need the money (they are one of the richest company per employee capita in the world already), they do it for the sake of doing it because they want to.

The circuitry analysis of the leaked PCB pictures shows DP 1.4 signal processor chips.

That was a prototype, you can have something above specs for experimenting, but for mas production, you have to use the cheapest chip that will do the job.

I guess Valve just listed the bare minimum spec to run it, which will be DP 1.2

In USB, they say min requirements USB 2.0, and in the specs USB 3.0

Por DP, they say DP 1.2 in min reqs, and the specs DP 1.2 too ... SPECs are SPECs.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/1/18291013/valve-index-vr-headset-product-page-early-launch-date

 

Display Port 1.2 confirmed, so they can't have more than 1600p at 90Hz.

 

Still will be probably the best and more balanced HMD, if we take into account tracking quality and controllers, but for DCS I thing HP Reverv will be better.

Given minimum 970 spec, I think it won't be super high res either. Thats basically the same as rift CV1.

Given minimum 970 spec, I think it won't be super high res either. Thats basically the same as rift CV1.

Yeah but as official specs are not yet out, could just be a place holder also.

Let's see what it shows when becomes officially available.

Yeah but as official specs are not yet out, could just be a place holder also.

Let's see what it shows when becomes officially available.

When asked about the product page, Valve confirmed its accuracy and added some clarity around the “Knuckles” controllers, which are now called the Valve Index Controllers and will ship with the device in June. “The tech info on that page, while not comprehensive, is accurate,” Valve spokesman Doug Lombardi told The Verge.

Here's hoping, if the rendering resolution is indeed low-ish (And that would actually be good for performance) that it has a nice upscaler and higher rez panels inside. That is what the Pimax "8K" does anyway I think.

If it does have VirtualLink, that would be a huge plus. Anyone planning to buy it, probably has a card with VirtualLink port on it. (There will be exceptions I know. Yeah, I see you guy in the corner wanting to run it with your GTX960m)

Just as it seems I am edging towards the Reverb, some more "leaks" arrive to throw the cat among the pigeons again.

If the following is true, I just changed my mind..... again.

Adjustable ipd we already know about.

2016 x 2240 panels.

120 degree FoV.

Knuckles controllers.

Requires 1070 or better.

Shipping June 15th.

On the downside for me and other rift owners is the fact it does not ship with the base stations, so it depends how much the headset is combined with the cost of those.

I think your closer to it, as I remember when the Vive Pro was released Gabe Newell made a comment on how he was disappointed in the current pace of HMD progress, with what was technically and feasibly possible even at that time. It appeared to me anyway that his comment was directed toward HTC as disappointment of the Vive Pro not being a true Gen 2 HMD.

However, we are talking about Valve, and Gabe Newell, so it's certainly all speculation until May. Gonna be long month in that respect.

 

Nor am I expecting the Index to be a budget HMD by any means.

 

My question though, is not the new Virtual Link, a USB 3.1 port, and for display output? And this was listed as "Recommended" on the leaked page?

 

And Valve is one of the partners of the Virtual Link Consortium.

I think for Valve to release a next gen VR headset with their new gen knuckles and limit it to not use Virtual link plus less res than the Reverb, would be the height of stupidity. This headset is meant to span the next 3+yrs of hardware/software development. The Rift S is already a yellow pack effort for those that that don`t know any better in relation to VR. Nvidia/AMD settled on Virtual link as the way forward in coordination with the headset manufactures.

A German Game Portal talks about a resolution of 2160x2432 per eye, which sounds promising. (1.001-ppi-Display & 90Hz from JDI)

Source is a demo video for the knuckles controller, which ran at a ingame resolution of 1913×2125 at arround 90% Supersampling. :pilotfly:

I guess we will soon enough. But this could get interesting.

It all comes down to what the SteamVR API in that leaked video assumes as 100% resolution. Iirc the Vive headsets have a default render resolution 40% higher than their render resolution. That would not necessarily need to be the case for the Index.

The low res screengrab of the dev stream alt-tabbing showing 90% res being 1913 x 2125 would mean that the 100% res would be 2126 x 2361.

If we assume that the 100% res is the panel res as well, then the 2 most likely displays would either be the BOE 90Hz panel doing 2160 x 2376 or the 120Hz JDI one doing 2160x2432.

However, if we assume that the 100% resolution actually is the same 40% higher than the panel res as is the case with the Vive Pro, we would end up with the exact same panel res as the Vive Pro.

In my opinion this would be highly unlikely:

1.) Gabe was unhappy with the HTC products so far

2.) The significant rise in FOV (rumored to be around 130-something degrees) would make the pixel-per-degree res LOWER than the Vive

I think that the panel res equals render res for the Index - if the same 40% additional rendering res would be applied to these assumed high natives resolutions, we would end up with 3024 x 3404 and 3024 x 3326 per eye respectively. I can't see any current-gen GPU rendering anything at these resolutions, let alone at 90 or even 120fps.

My money still is on one the BOE or JDI panel. The only thing that I find a bit contradictory so far is the minimum requirement of DP1.2 if the leaked PCBs showed chips capable of dealing with DP1.4 streams and bandwidths - which would no doubt be required to panel such beastly panels in any case - UNLESS that chip can also do scaling (which would add latency).

I am very much on the fence for the Index and can't wait to get my hands on conrete info, but so far I don't see this releasing with "just" Vive Pro res, Reverb res or better would make so much more sense, especially for the rumored targeted FOV.

IMHO all the new headsets are contenders, even the rift s. It's not only a matter of resolution, otherwise the choice would be easy. We have to see lenses, type of panel, sde, software optimization, latency (who cares of a super resolution if it lags?), and so on. Also price, or better price/performance ratio. We have to wait when all this devices will be on sale.

Yes rift s could be a good choice for older rift users with not so many money to spend

Definitely. But for those lucky enough to not be limited by their budget, it is all about the specs. Also, we don't know what the Index will be sold for, it might end up having a quite impressive price/performance ratio, even though I have no doubt that it will not be as affordable as the Oculus products which clearly target the mainstream.

I'm expecting a $1,200 price range for a complete setup, lighthouses, controllers, and all, which I will gladly pay, or more, IF the Valve Index turns out to be a true 2nd gen 4K HMD. If not, then I'll may go with something else.

Whats your definition of a true 2nd gen HMD? Foveated rendering?

Valve Index - new HMD in May

Whats your definition of a true 2nd gen HMD?

that’s the real question isn’t it?

everyone’s definition and minimum requirement is different.

My definition of gen's is PPD at this point. If this thing delivers PPD in the mid 20's and it can run decently on a current high end GFX card its 2nd gen in my book.

Valve Index - new HMD in May

what if has “PPD in the mid 20's” but you don’t have the hardware to to it?

is it still a “next gen” device?

maybe "next-next-gen"? next^2 gen?

I'm expecting a $1,200 price range for a complete setup, lighthouses, controllers, and all, which I will gladly pay, or more, IF the Valve Index turns out to be a true 2nd gen 4K HMD. If not, then I'll may go with something else.

This right there.

My personal "definition" of a 2nd gen thing would be resolution high enough to read any and all text in a DCS cockpit, no screendoor effect whatsoever, no god rays, a FOV of 130+. Since slightly above 4k makes sense, I guess this is what we will be seeing. I also wouldn't mind VirtualLink as the interface.

For our specific applications, the tracking mostly concerns the head. But I'd be freakin thrilled if the expansion bay in the front of the Index would accomodate something like a Leap Motion but a bit better. Then we can click and flick switches in the cockpit without a mouse which I'd describe as DCS VR Nirvana.