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I’m lost. Cannot spot enemies etc


Randy_Lahey

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CTRL + Pause twice I think shows what your FOV is (mixed in with a lot of other info). I have my zoom view on an axis so I just dial down the saturation in axis tune under controls. You don't really have to set up "ranges" I guess.... I just do it because in the heat of the moment I'll zoom WAYYYYYYYY too far out or in just long enough to loose sight of a plane. One negative is if you are attacking ground targets you can't see them anymore from 500 miles away. Meh.

 

More... If you are flying jets I'd say anything beyond 20nm and your face will be in the radar anyway... and like everyone has said spotting does get easier when you start to get a feel for where someone most likely will be after a maneuver and that only comes with time. After the merge I still spend a lot of time looking for the bandit. It takes both the eyeballs and the RWR for me to locate them. The FOV thing only helps if you are looking in the right direction in the first place. Also had to learn to calm down and scan slow with my eyes.

 

 

Set up a guns only mission where you are invincible, unlimited ammo, and unlimited fuel against a bandit. Set triggers that when bandit 1 dies, bandit 2 spawns and so on. That will give you the most learning for your time. Just keep fighting them until you start knowing where to look after the merge and during the fight.


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Everyone I've ever played with who was new, keeping track of the other guy was one of the hardest parts initially :P Even more so in jet fighters. I played a lot of WWII sims, and was really used to the (comparatively) slow speeds there, I mean, most combat takes place 300mph or less, with "boom and zoom" taking place at 400mph or less....... First time I encountered a jet fighter, and the --minimum-- speed was 400mph+, with a lot of the fighting taking place at 600+, it felt like everything was on fast forward. Takes some getting used to, for sure.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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Ok I will try. Not sure to do custom missions

For F-15C's guns and dogfighting training there are already good setups in the Instant Action menu. Add any options you want and practice.

Of course for the whole experience (cold start, taxi, take off, nav, fence in, combat, fence out, nav, land, taxi, off) the campaigns and single missions (with realistic settings) are much better but can be extremely frustrating until you are really combat mission ready. Ie. when you die after 40mins of flight every time those Flankers get on you, rinse and repeat. But I still like this way better ;)

Also do not hesitate to invest in some headtracking (even cheaper DIY). It really helps and saves you from additional view controls and buttons.


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Resolution is a factor. I did a test in 3440x1440 and 1366x768. Same mission, same distance to target. The target aircraft was clearly visible in low rez and completely gone in high rez.

 

But I can deal with long range spotting issues. It is the medium-short range spotting that is really suffering in DCS. You loose sight of anything that you should be able too see without issues at close ranges. Like buddies, bandits, tankers, awacs etc.

 

WWII or Korea gameplay without radar or labels? Forget it unless you want to spend the entire evening trying to find someone... Altitude advantage? Nope, cause you can't see anyone far below. Speed advantage? Nope. You need to turn in a circle 15 times after the "merge" call to hopefully get a tally.

 

Sorry to sound a bit bitter, but this has been an issue for years and years and years :(

If DCS aims for simulation, spotting at realistic ranges should be simulated aswell.

At the moment, sound is actually more helpful than eyesight to get a tally on another aircraft

in close.

 

Since model enlargement was scrapped and smart scaling has it's own issues... maybe an "enchanced spotting" option would be a good idea? Like canopy reflections, higher color contrasts on distant aircrafts etc... some subtle ways to make DCS a bit more playable.

 

I think this is again a SA problem more than a spotting problem, you can watch a lot of wwII dogfighting clips in youtube (i mean from DCS) and you will see that they dont have so much trouble keeping sight of the bandits, its totally doable. And regarding fast jets which i play the most, i do lots of dogfighting and in general is totally possible keeping track of the bandit. There is the ocasional lost of SA after some yo-yos and rolls but is possible to reacquire.

 

The key here is understanding how he is moving and towards where in relation to you, that lets you know where to look again. I also think DCS has improved a lot since it models engine smoke trails and vapor trails, you can definitely see those.

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What is SA?

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@imacken

SA Situational Awareness, ie recognising the object in front of your face is in fact your hand :p

 

I had a friend one time in War Thunder, his first time flying he was vectored directly into a 15 plane furball and managed to be completely oblivious to it all. At that point, I realises he was going to need some 1 on 1 training :p

 

Imo, more than any other aspect, this is the hardest part of any war game, especially aircraft oriented ones. I've had guys who couldn't even maintain formation because as soon as they looked away they'd lose track of you. Some folks are naturally clueless, I think :p

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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@imacken

SA Situational Awareness, ie recognising the object in front of your face is in fact your hand :p

Thanks, that's what I assumed, but couldn't see why it was relevant to not being able to see enemies.

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You don't see how situational awareness is relevant to not seeing enemies? Because 'hard to see' and 'impossible to see' aren't the same thing. The objects in most cases are rendering, but are easy to lose track of, especially in CQB where stuff is zipping around you at several hundred MPH.

 

I'm sure this thread is full of people ranting about DCS suckz, Falkon better, rabble rabble 'I can see the pilots eyes at 20 miles in-RL' posts, but that's all been argued in another thread and shown to be a combination of BS and poor SA.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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I guess the problem is a mixture of 3 things.

 

1- I think that the game is optimized for FHD (1080) screens. This is why on higher resolution the render of other planes is smaller because the number of pixels is the same as FHD.

 

2- FHD, UHD and 4K is meant to be used on different screen sizes. For example FHD for screens from 20" to 40", UHD from 40" to 80" and 4K for screen sizes more than 80".

 

3- There is no actual zoom in or out in DCS. What we have is only FOV. From 60 to 80 is optimum for 16:9 screens. Less than 60 is very narrow, so the game engine stretch the render and you the effect of zooming in. More than 80 is too wide and the game engine compress the render and you have the effect of zooming out.

 

As for SA. This is a different topic. But best FOV in DCS for SA during dog fighting, I found it to be from 90 to 110 degree.

 

Also in real life which make it even more easier for spotting and SA are dynamic human eyes, Depth of field and Reflection Glare. And the later two could be implemented in a game engine. f7656ac12a77a138e7b65f2782516e22.jpg

 

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2- FHD, UHD and 4K is meant to be used on different screen sizes. For example FHD for screens from 20" to 40", UHD from 40" to 80" and 4K for screen sizes more than 80".

Well not exactly. You can benefit from the increased resolution of 2160p on almost any size screen depending on the viewing distance. Also Ultra HD and 4K are the same vertical resolution of 2160. UHD = 2160x3840. 4K = 2160 x 4096. But for our purposes and most all consumer video displays the terms are interchangeable. They are both suitable for the same viewing distances. You don’t need an 80” screen to see the difference.

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Well update. This will be a slow painful journey lol. I can spot enemies now better. I have a "zoom" toggled onto that little "mouse/flipper" thing on my X56 hotas/throttle. With my thumb I can zoom in and release back to "normal" pretty quick. But yeah what they say about SA is super true. I have about 1% SA now lol, up from 0%. I can see where more experience will really help, knowing roughly where to look based on relevant info re: enemy position. Right now I may know they are 10 miles out at a certain heading, but I could be looking too far/ too close etc... based on low experience/SA. Anyway, thx for the tips everyone.

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I also recommend watching this video to help understand radar and why you sometimes can't even find targets on it. The video will also teach you how to try and not get hit by a missile too :) Jabbers(who made the video below) also made other good videos you might enjoy learning from.

 

 

And below is an explanation on how to utilize the F-15C radar. It isn't by Jabbers but he did a very good explanation on using the F-15C radar.

 

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Only a quick read of the thread, are you using Trackir Randy_Lahey? If not you definitely need some kind of head tracking once in visual range dogfighting. I also have the zoom on my HOTAS so I can keep my eye's tracking on the bandit.

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3- There is no actual zoom in or out in DCS. What we have is only FOV. From 60 to 80 is optimum for 16:9 screens. Less than 60 is very narrow, so the game engine stretch the render and you the effect of zooming in. More than 80 is too wide and the game engine compress the render and you have the effect of zooming out.

 

Zoom is exactly that - changing FOV.

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Only a quick read of the thread, are you using Trackir Randy_Lahey? If not you definitely need some kind of head tracking once in visual range dogfighting. I also have the zoom on my HOTAS so I can keep my eye's tracking on the bandit.

 

yeah I have a "knock off" track ir. it works well. But I struggle with positioning myself and keeping track of enemy in dogfights. I continually lose track of the enemy and they are on my 6 like nothing. I guess I'm dense. I think I need to go back to some more basic aviation to learn the physics of how to position myself in relation to my enemy. It's overwhelming. Fun, but hard.

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I am in the same situation as the OP, with the difference that i know the theory really well. I understand how the radar cone works perfectly, i know all instruments, many maneuvers, etc.

 

However, i can't even see if there's another plane at the far end of the runway when i take off.

I try to follow people in MP, and i usually lose sight of them a bit after they are airborne, while i'm ready to go on the runway.

 

They take off, turn a bit, and i completely lose them. When i pause the replay and look very slowly i eventually find them, but they are incredibly small pixels even at 1nm or whatever the runway length is.

They seem to be a little more evident when i zoom out completely -- but then i have fish vision and can't read any instrument

 

I'm starting to question my monitor (LG 29UM59A at 2560x1080) or my eyesight (i have shortsightness, and i'm missing ~0.5 degrees over my glasses, but that shoulnd't make a difference at monitor distances)

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I am in the same situation as the OP, with the difference that i know the theory really well. I understand how the radar cone works perfectly, i know all instruments, many maneuvers, etc.

 

However, i can't even see if there's another plane at the far end of the runway when i take off.

I try to follow people in MP, and i usually lose sight of them a bit after they are airborne, while i'm ready to go on the runway.

 

They take off, turn a bit, and i completely lose them. When i pause the replay and look very slowly i eventually find them, but they are incredibly small pixels even at 1nm or whatever the runway length is.

They seem to be a little more evident when i zoom out completely -- but then i have fish vision and can't read any instrument

 

I'm starting to question my monitor (LG 29UM59A at 2560x1080) or my eyesight (i have shortsightness, and i'm missing ~0.5 degrees over my glasses, but that shoulnd't make a difference at monitor distances)

I don't think it's your monitor or your eyes! For me, this has always been the most frustrating aspect of DCS. Many people just dismiss the issue when it has been discussed, but for a lot of people, it really is major. I have to use labels whenever I can to keep the enjoyment factor of combat going, otherwise, it just turns into frustration for me.

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It is all related to resolution and FOV (Zoom).

 

Do this test:

 

Have a plane in WVR front of you, let say 5nm.

 

When you decrease your FOV (zooming in) that plane get smaller. But, when you increase your FOV (zooming out) that plane get larger.

 

The model Enlargement is their in Dcs, but it is related to FOV.

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For VR and monitor I use my own label for now.

 

If anyone wants to have a try or make their own for single player. I made a few posts in this thread on how.

1) First post how to install and modify a label.

 

2) 2nd post has a label attached for VR, have a play with it and make it as easy or hard as you like.

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Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library

Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link

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It is all related to resolution and FOV (Zoom).

 

Do this test:

 

Have a plane in WVR front of you, let say 5nm.

 

When you decrease your FOV (zooming in) that plane get smaller. But, when you increase your FOV (zooming out) that plane get larger.

 

The model Enlargement is their in Dcs, but it is related to FOV.

 

 

Yes but changing FOV everytime is not intuitive. We change it all the time without even notice the majority of the time because we would not be able to play otherwise, we can't even attack ground targets without zooming in.

 

 

 

I find this very inconvinient and unimerssive. They need to find a solution to this problem, something like the enlarged models we had was a good choice.

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Yes but changing FOV everytime is not intuitive. We change it all the time without even notice the majority of the time because we would not be able to play otherwise, we can't even attack ground targets without zooming in.

 

 

 

I find this very inconvinient and unimerssive. They need to find a solution to this problem, something like the enlarged models we had was a good choice.

Agreed 100%. I'm just explaining how it is currently implemented and I'm complaining about too.

 

The spotting system needs to be reworked.

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