Index vs Reverb

I try to be pretty honest about the issues that the Reverb has. Its far from perfect, but at the moment I think its the best thing for DCS provided you have the hardware to run it.

The list of minor issues with the reverb IMO:

1. Controllers suck: (Irrelevant for DCS, but if you play other games then its worth considering)

2. Edge of screen blurriness that gets worse the further you get out from the center view. This

is an issue on most headsets IMO due to the fact they all use fresnel lenses, but its more

noticeable on the reverb because it is so damn clear in the center and also because IPD

adjustment is lacking.

3. Chromatic aberration when you get out of the center of view, and its particularly bad at the

very edges of the screen (also where its blury).

4. Tracking could be better, once in a while I get bad tracking when starting up, but it usually

sorts itself out by the time DCS loads.

5. Audio/earphones are kinda flimsy (but they can be totally detached and you can use the

3.5mm plug for your own headset.

6. Cable is heavy, not really a huge deal for DCS because its a seated game but I could see it

as an issue for standing games.

7. Various hardware issues reported. I haven't personally seen any of these, I have the "clip"

upgrade for the cable, and I also zip tied it to the headset to minimize any cable strain.

There is an annoying flickering with the DCS load screens (when loading into a plane), but

my Rift had similar weird artifacts with those too. So thats a DCS problem not a Reverb

issue. In game there is no flickering.

8. LCD vs OLED, means the color pallete isn't as vibrant, but from what I've heard thats the

same for the RiftS and the Index.

I would honestly put all of these into the "minor" issues category.

Things I didn't find to be an issue.

1. WMR setup, I frankly think people are overstating this. I made sure I had the latest updates for windows (1903). I plugged in the reverb and WMR installed

itself, the actual VR setup was far easier than the Rift CV1. I then fired up steam and downloaded WMR for Steam App. And then started DCS. And it all worked

fine. I think most people won't have too many issues with it. And after a few days of using WMR its about as easy to use as the Rift.

2. Performance. Frankly I was expecting to have to turn things down or for it to run well. But it literally ran fine with my CV1 settings which included a PD of 1.8!!!

I've tweaked it since then, but mostly so I could turn things up! That being said, I do have the "monster rig". Also as a pro-tip, set DCS PD1.0 and use the

steam SS settings instead. I think their SS algo is better than what DCS is using, and spotting is negatively affected by setting DCS PD higher than 1.0 but not

using the steam SS settings.

I think its the best thing for DCS provided you have the hardware to run it.

Currently using a Rift S, just wondering how would my rig cope with the Reverb ?.

My IPD is about 67.

Currently using a Rift S, just wondering how would my rig cope with the Reverb ?.

 

My IPD is about 67.

Rift-S have a lower native resolution so it needs additional PD to make more clear picture. The best issue with Reverb is the best native resolution which enhanced clarity to the max without need for SS/PD.

This major difference resulting in the same hardware consumption. If you are able to run it on Rift-S should be able to run it on Reverb on same level of details except for PD.

The list of minor issues with the reverb IMO:

 

1. Controllers suck: (Irrelevant for DCS, but if you play other games then its worth considering)

This Controller suck is little too hard statement.

WMR controllers is working fine. It is not best controllers but working in all games.

It is like when you comparing Logitech X56 with Worthog or T-50. Those two are much better but X56 is dissent and working fine as well. You can fly with it.

So that Controller suck takes with grain of salt.

67 mm is about the upper limit IMO on the Reverb. You might see a slightly degraded display but it should still be usable. The only way to know for sure is to try it. I think your rig will work.

Currently using a Rift S, just wondering how would my rig cope with the Reverb ?.

 

My IPD is about 67.

Currently using a Rift S, just wondering how would my rig cope with the Reverb ?.

 

My IPD is about 67.

Well my specs are below, the main difference looks to be the 1080ti vs 2080ti. I think a 1080 is the minimum spec for the reverb. And as others have pointed out, you should be ok. The nice thing about having a ton of pixels is that you don't have to super sample for a good image. Even though I was able to run mine fine with 1.8 PD which to me sounded insane. I'm currently running PD 1.0 and ~150% super sampling (so like 3kx3k pixels per eye) without any real issues. I tried it on just PD1.0/100% and it still looked great, but I did see some jaggies from some objects which is why I pushed up the super sampling a bit. But it wasn't game/imersion breaking by any means.

IPD wise, my rift reported my IPD as 67 as well (best clarity with their + sign test). But other measurements have been more like 64 or 65 (apps/mirror method). So not sure what to tell you there.

This Controller suck is little too hard statement.

 

WMR controllers is working fine. It is not best controllers but working in all games.

 

It is like when you comparing Logitech X56 with Worthog or T-50. Those two are much better but X56 is dissent and working fine as well. You can fly with it.

So that Controller suck takes with grain of salt.

Fine, fine. The Rift controllers are just better thought out and tracking is better too. I don't use them though so its no loss.

Appreciate your replies.

Between the two headsets i'm warming towards the Reverb, I have absolutely zero interest in VR games other then sit down flight sims.

Although the Index in many ways is probably the better all round quality headset, I think paying the premium price for the better hand controllers for me is a waste of money.

The way i'm thinking now is that a VR headset is an expendable commodity, I bought the Rift S two months ago knowing that it was just a temporary stop gap between my original Rift and whatever headset comes next.

The Reverb looks to be better value.... whenever they become available.

I used the Index first and found it a really good HMD for DCS and then I started to use the Reverb and found it even better. I went back to the Index and I can def see the SDE and black lines through the pixels which I can't stand. The Reverb ruined me for any other HMD that's out there since I am now use to a clearer pic with no SDE.

Fine, fine. The Rift controllers are just better thought out and tracking is better too. I don't use them though so its no loss.

:thumbup:

I used the Index first and found it a really good HMD for DCS and then I started to use the Reverb and found it even better. I went back to the Index and I can def see the SDE and black lines through the pixels which I can't stand. The Reverb ruined me for any other HMD that's out there since I am now use to a clearer pic with no SDE.

Same experience.

The reality is, the Reverb is going to look better as it has a higher overall resolution (top in VR right now).

Now, if HP can just iron out some of the initial issues (in particular for me is the amount of heat it generates - I have use a fan), it's a great headset.

I should add, I use it sitting down 100% of the time for flight sims. I would not like the unit as much for standing VR games as the cable is quite heavy compared to Rift/Odyssey

Same experience.

 

The reality is, the Reverb is going to look better as it has a higher overall resolution (top in VR right now).

 

Now, if HP can just iron out some of the initial issues (in particular for me is the amount of heat it generates - I have use a fan), it's a great headset.

 

I should add, I use it sitting down 100% of the time for flight sims. I would not like the unit as much for standing VR games as the cable is quite heavy compared to Rift/Odyssey

I sent back my Index today since I'll never use it again. I also bought some steam USB dongles, I'm going to flash them as HTC vive tracker watchmen to use my vive controllers and basestations for the Reverb So I can play FPS too. If everything work well, I'm going to buy Steam Knuckles when their available.

Same experience.

 

The reality is, the Reverb is going to look better as it has a higher overall resolution (top in VR right now).

 

Now, if HP can just iron out some of the initial issues (in particular for me is the amount of heat it generates - I have use a fan), it's a great headset.

 

I should add, I use it sitting down 100% of the time for flight sims. I would not like the unit as much for standing VR games as the cable is quite heavy compared to Rift/Odyssey

Hm, my headset gets a little warm, but not bad. And with the nosepiece out it doesn't really fog up. I wonder if this is yet another QC issue with some headsets. (And I count myself very lucky since I have had no problems in the week I've had it).

What SSAA and MSAA are you running inside the sim from DCS Settings if I may ask?

You may O golden one ;)

PD 1.0

No SSAA (since its basically PD as I understand it)

2X MSAA

And I settled on around 150% in steamVR (native res was around 108%)

I play online and generally its quite smooth, and hammers the card to about 90%.

It also worked fine at my old CV1 setting of PD 1.8, MSAA 2x and steam 100%

I'll probably tweak it around some more and try to turn shadows up from flat.

My second Reverb is only a bit warmer (on the front of the top) than the first one but only a little and it doesn't need a fan or anything, and sweating or fogging isn't an issue as it is cool where your eyes are. That is strange where a few of them heat up much more noticeably.

I have 19 days left to return this 2nd one to Best Buy (to guarantee getting a Gen 2). Amazon and Best Buy still have them listed as unavailable but are maintaining the listings.

Has anyone heard any updates on shipments of the the Gen 2 Reverb's?

I will email the HP Omen support guy to see what he can tell me. Not a peep from Acer on a consumer version of theirs.

Same experience.

 

The reality is, the Reverb is going to look better as it has a higher overall resolution (top in VR right now).

 

Now, if HP can just iron out some of the initial issues (in particular for me is the amount of heat it generates - I have use a fan), it's a great headset.

 

I should add, I use it sitting down 100% of the time for flight sims. I would not like the unit as much for standing VR games as the cable is quite heavy compared to Rift/Odyssey

FYI, for those interested, I was successful in getting a VIVE controller and two base-stations to function with the Reverb. I had the Vive parts when I had the Pimax 5K+ and sold the Pimax. Now trying to decide if I want to buy another Vive controller or wait for the knuckles to become available. I have a Mamut VR stick for FPS but they do not have adapters for a WMR controller, only Rift, Vive and Valve controllers. Any word on when the Knuckles may be available?

I have been testing with almost the same settings Harlikwin and I have good clarity at the instrument panel but some smoothness difficulties when flying. Compared to the Rift S, I really like the clarity in the cockpit and the spotting of enemies online is easier but then once the fight begins in earnest, things are not as smooth as the Rift S. It's a mixed bag and I am still tweaking.

That seems odd. I'll take a screenie of my nvidia settings to see if it helps. But I don't really have issues dogfighting online or anywhere else. Also I double checked and my steam SS is 160% not 150%.

After some time with both headsets:

Compared with the Reverb the Index is a bit of a beast of a headset, about twice the weight but when on is very well balanced and doesn't feel heavy at all. It feels very well made and a little comfier on the nose. I haven't worn it for a long time in a single sitting though.

The image isn't as clear as the Reverb as expected but it does benefit from a more consistent image edge to edge whereas the Reverb is very clear in the middle and gets progressively less clear as you look to the edge.

The FOV is a little bigger, particularly the vertical but back to back I can’t say I missed the FOV of the Index.

The audio is impressive. I normally use speakers but I could come around to using the headset audio with the Index. I am not a great fan of headphones on my ears for any length of time so the off ear audio concept suits me and I think it sounds pretty good so far.

I tried driving a few laps at 120 and 144Hz and seeing how motion smoothing worked at the higher refresh rates in flying sims. Maybe a marginal gain but I didn't really notice any real benefit over 90 & 45 re-projection.

Back to the Reverb and the image clarity boost just wins me over. 90Hz seems plenty smooth enough.

I think both are good headsets and the Index is far more easily available but the Reverb is my choice for seated sims having tried both.

Having taken delivery of my Index a few days ago, here is what I think of the areas where the Index and Reverb win:

Index

- build quality

- comfort

- audio quality

- dynamic range and contrast of image quality

- no WMR!

- FOV

- larger sweet spot

- adjustable IPD

Reverb

- image clarity due to higher res (but this is dimininished by using high SS/PD values on the Index)

The Index is an improvement over my Vive Pro, especially in the quality of the external terrain in DCS due to hugely reduced SDE and increased FOV.

I returned my Reverb, but I think the Index will be a keeper.

Having taken delivery of my Index a few days ago, here is what I think of the areas where the Index and Reverb win:

 

Index

- build quality

- comfort

- audio quality

- dynamic range and contrast of image quality

- no WMR!

- FOV

- larger sweet spot

- adjustable IPD

 

Reverb

- image clarity due to higher res (but this is dimininished by using high SS/PD values on the Index)

Though I haven't got the clarity as close as I would like, what kind of SS/PD are you running with the Index?

I would agree with all of that.

 

Though I haven't got the clarity as close as I would like, what kind of SS/PD are you running with the Index?

At the moment, I use SS of 204% and PD 1.0. I have most settings at high and MSAA x2.

That tends to give me a solid 45fps, and frame times of 15-20ms.

At the moment, I use SS of 204% and PD 1.0. I have most settings at high and MSAA x2.

That tends to give me a solid 45fps, and frame times of 15-20ms.

Edit: tried 204 @ 90Hz and it does get pretty close, most impressive!

My current conclusion is these are two great headsets although not without their own issues. I have been getting some EMI issues with the Index where the screen goes grey if I touch it, I can kind of work around it but there nonetheless.

Thanks, presumably you are running a refresh of 90, have you tried higher to see if you can get 60 re-projection? Or would that mean dropping SS too much?

 

Edit: tried 204 @ 90Hz and it does get pretty close, most impressive!

 

My current conclusion is these are two great headsets although not without their own issues. I have been getting some EMI issues with the Index where the screen goes grey if I touch it, I can kind of work around it but there nonetheless.

I got the graying too on the Index. I think you covering up IR sensors where you grab it by the housing so grab it by the headphone or head strap to adjust the HMD on you head and you shouldn't get any more graying out.

Thanks, presumably you are running a refresh of 90, have you tried higher to see if you can get 60 re-projection? Or would that mean dropping SS too much?

Yep, I tried 120Hz, but even with SS at 100%, MSAA off and PD at 1.0, I couldn’t get it to hold 60 fps. Tended to be stuck on 40.

I couldn’t see any difference even when it was at 60, so I went back to 90Hz.

I got the graying too on the Index. I think you covering up IR sensors where you grab it by the housing so grab it by the headphone or head strap to adjust the HMD on you head and you shouldn't get any more graying out.