AB detent option?

Wags/ED,

Are you planning on including the AB detent special option like we have in the Hornet?

It really works great for those without an actual physical detent on their HOTAS and I hope to see it as an included option with the F-16 as well.

Hello! Of course, we will add this feature. We ourselves find it useful and many players agree :thumbup:

Thanks for the reply! Happy to hear that you will be adding this! I have a Thrustmaster TWCS throttle and finding a button to map the AB detent to won't be a problem.

Keep up the great work and good luck with F-16 development...looking forward to it!!!

I'm curious, how does this feature work? I'm asking because the latest Virpil throttle comes without detends and this sounds like something to map on a pinky switch on the throttle.

You need more than just 1 detend…. There is the Cutoff Position, the AB detend….

I'm curious, how does this feature work? I'm asking because the latest Virpil throttle comes without detends and this sounds like something to map on a pinky switch on the throttle.

Basically, without pressing the mapped AB button, increasing your throttle to max will give you MIL power....with the AB button pressed, increasing your throttle to max will give you afterburner.

Perfect, thanks. This will go on the pinky switch, then.

The pinky switch is used already in the F-16 for display options… But on the throttle at the warthog for example should be a free button.

Basically, without pressing the mapped AB button, increasing your throttle to max will give you MIL power....with the AB button pressed, increasing your throttle to max will give you afterburner.

Sorry I don't have the F-18 so not familiar with this 'option', but reading your description - what do you do if you are at MIL and want to go into full AB? Isn't the throttle already at full FWD travel? Do you need to drop the throttle back then push the AB detent button then move it full FWD again?....cause that seems 'less than ideal'. Same deal with going from AB to MIL - AFT then FWD again without button pushed? How do you set different levels of AB if it just goes into AB at full FWD travel with the button pushed?

What is wrong with just implementing the Falcon 4.0 option of the user setting an AB position on the travel range of their particular throttle. Probably one of the best control mapping options ever that has been continually ignored. Does Microprose have a patent on it or something?

Sorry I don't have the F-18 so not familiar with this 'option', but reading your description - what do you do if you are at MIL and want to go into full AB? Isn't the throttle already at full FWD travel? Do you need to drop the throttle back then push the AB detent button then move it full FWD again?....cause that seems 'less than ideal'. Same deal with going from AB to MIL - AFT then FWD again without button pushed? How do you set different levels of AB if it just goes into AB at full FWD travel with the button pushed?

 

 

What is wrong with just implementing the Falcon 4.0 option of the user setting an AB position on the travel range of their particular throttle. Probably one of the best control mapping options ever that has been continually ignored. Does Microprose have a patent on it or something?

Yes, you have to drop the throttle back to change between MIL and AB. It is less than ideal but so is not having a physical detent on the throttle. I find that it works well and is easy to get used to. Having to drop the throttle back also provides a physical cue to let me know that I am changing between MIL and AB.

Different levels of AB? Which aircraft have that?

I find that having the AB position being set at a particular throttle range lacks enough feedback and requires close monitoring of the FF and RPM gauges to let you know if you are in AB or full MIL power.

Yes, you have to drop the throttle back to change between MIL and AB. It is less than ideal but so is not having a physical detent on the throttle. I find that it works well and is easy to get used to. Having to drop the throttle back also provides a physical cue to let me know that I am changing between MIL and AB.

 

Different levels of AB? Which aircraft have that?

 

I find that having the AB position being set at a particular throttle range lacks enough feedback and requires close monitoring of the FF and RPM gauges to let you know if you are in AB or full MIL power.

Sevareal planes got multiply stages in AB

Sevareal planes got multiply stages in AB

Well, that may be true but this discussion is specific to the F-16 which, does not.

For the F-16, the AB detent option will be great for those who do not have a detent on their throttle.

Of course, this is an option and can be turned off for those who do not like it's functionality. Options are good to have, as everyone's setup and preferences are different.

Sevareal planes got multiply stages in AB

You are correct. I can't think of any aircraft with AB or reheat that do not have several stages of it.

On the F-16 with GE-129, at min AB all engine gauges will be the same as in mil power except the fuel flow (PPH) and nozzle position (noz pos %).

This is on the ground, in the air it might have different numbers.

At mil power, noz pos should be -3% to 10%

Min AB, noz pos 5% to 40%

Max AB, noz pos 50% to 70%

PPH will just increase, not set number.

here is a good representation of the throttle movement

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3769748&postcount=1147

You are correct. I can't think of any aircraft with AB or reheat that do not have several stages of it.

On the F-16 with GE-129, at min AB all engine gauges will be the same as in mil power except the fuel flow (PPH) and nozzle position (noz pos %).

 

This is on the ground, in the air it might have different numbers.

At mil power, noz pos should be -3% to 10%

Min AB, noz pos 5% to 40%

Max AB, noz pos 50% to 70%

 

PPH will just increase, not set number.

 

 

here is a good representation of the throttle movement

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3769748&postcount=1147

There may be several stages of afterburner, but are they actually controllable with the throttle? In the F-16...as well as Hornet and Tomcat, I thought afterburner was all or nothing.

Here is an example of Min AB and Max AB on the F404. keep in mind without looking at the throttle it is impossible to tell the actual throttle movement speed and position.

The Electric lightning appears to only have reheat on or off, but again without knowledge of the aircraft and not seeing what the pilot is doing is impossible to know if the throttle is not just being move to max reheat.

note how the flame starts fully extended

Here is a F110-GE-100

note how the flame starts small en extends. Again without looking at the throttle is impossible to show that throttle position or angle (GE engine on the F-16 use angle for the throttle switches, which in turn, send the signal to the Digital Engine Control [DEC] which control engine RPM, the physical cable/rod is only used on secondary [sec] mode.)

F110-GE-129 examples

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Note on the GE-129 example the min AB is on for around a minute before going to Max AB. This is part of the Augmentation operational check found in 1F-16CJ-2-70JG-00-11, para 2-7-1, 70-00-07 function number page 2-182

There may be several stages of afterburner, but are they actually controllable with the throttle? In the F-16...as well as Hornet and Tomcat, I thought afterburner was all or nothing.

Respectfully you are incorrect, afterburner hasn’t been “All or Nothing” since the F-100 days. If you want to check it out for yourself just go to F2 and creep the F-18 into min burner, and then slowly push the throttle forward to max burner and you can watch each ring of the burner light up. The F-15 also pops quite nicely as each stage of the burner kicks in.

Respectfully you are incorrect, afterburner hasn’t been “All or Nothing” since the F-100 days. If you want to check it out for yourself just go to F2 and creep the F-18 into min burner, and then slowly push the throttle forward to max burner and you can watch each ring of the burner light up. The F-15 also pops quite nicely as each stage of the burner kicks in.

Hmm, interesting...I never knew! The great thing about this community is that I get to learn something knew all the time.

I guess I never noticed it because the travel on my throttle is so small that to see the different stages of afterburner would take very fine movement of the last few millimeters of travel. So for me, afterburner has been treated as all or nothing.

So, are the different stages of afterburner actually used in real life operation? Does the pilot have that level of precision in the throttle to do that?

There are differences between that stuff you have and the stuff that is available in the jet or used by pit builders. Normally you have a 1:1 contact to a poti or a HAL-sensor. But you are stuck at about 90° of movement or maybe less. In the real bird the throttle moves a poti not directly at the axis of the throttle arm... In my first pit I used a smaller gearwheel at the axis and a smaller one on the poti. It was about 1:3 in size. So with the 90 degree movement of the arm I moved the poti 270 degrees. This gives a much wider range and much better feeling ;)

You learn something everyday. I never knew about AB detent, this is the first I have heard about it. So I will need to set a button on my warthog for this???

Hmm, interesting...I never knew! The great thing about this community is that I get to learn something knew all the time.

 

I guess I never noticed it because the travel on my throttle is so small that to see the different stages of afterburner would take very fine movement of the last few millimeters of travel. So for me, afterburner has been treated as all or nothing.

 

So, are the different stages of afterburner actually used in real life operation? Does the pilot have that level of precision in the throttle to do that?

This vid explains the motion, but if someone else can explain if the pilots ever hold the throttle on half or one third of AB range. It's pretty short.

I'd assume if you need to get over the detent, you push it to full AB. That's kinda the point, if you're in a fight, you use all the AB power you have.

You will also see on your fuel flow instrument how much you burn…. ;) Then you can reduce some AB power or add. Much movement is not needed. You will not use different stages during a dogfight, but if you just want to make some speed you do not need full gate for this.

You learn something everyday. I never knew about AB detent, this is the first I have heard about it. So I will need to set a button on my warthog for this???

The Warthog throttle actually has a physical afterburner detent so you don't have to worry about using this option unless for some reason you don't like the Warthog's detent.

Does the X-56 have the detent?

The Warthog throttle actually has a physical afterburner detent so you don't have to worry about using this option unless for some reason you don't like the Warthog's detent.

You can actually get custom detents for most all the dcs aircraft!

https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace?tag=warthog is a lot of them.

So, are the different stages of afterburner actually used in real life operation? Does the pilot have that level of precision in the throttle to do that?

Yes to all of the above.