Pitch Trim Sensitivity Opinion

The Viper flys pretty awesome!

A few things though. Pitch trim is way sensitive I'm finding and needs to be toned down a bit. Also it seems like there is a slight .... very slight roll to the right... not sure if this is correctly modeled but with fly by wire I thought it should be almost hands free or almost so when trimmed.

When rolling for take off the viper doesn't track straight, I'm used to this in prop planes but it seems weird with the viper.

The trim is definitly WIP. And I notice the yaw to the right on takeoff as well. I've started trimming my rudder 8-10 clicks to the left before I roll.

The trim is definitly WIP. And I notice the yaw to the right on takeoff as well. I've started trimming my rudder 8-10 clicks to the left before I roll.

Why didn't I think of this?

Excellent suggestion!

I agree the pitch trim is sensitive. But I have to ask why are you using it? I never use the pitch trim in the Viper. Roll trim is a different matter but pitch trim is pretty much left alone.

Trim in any axis is waaaay too sensitive in all modules of DCS. Something that really needs to be worked on.

Trim in any axis is waaaay too sensitive in all modules of DCS. Something that really needs to be worked on.

Hornet is fine IMHO.

Just my 2 cents

I'm glad I'm not the only one finding these things.... just wanted to give some feedback

Cherrs

I must be a minority here as I love the Viper trim the way it is now. Because for me just little bit touch for the trim then I'm ok. Its probably just a matter of getting used to.

Strangely enough I'm getting a slight roll to the left, never the right. And yes definitely sensitive trim. I have trim mapped to axis on the throttle which is smooth but one twitch of my thumb and she rolls over like my dog looking for a treat.

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Pitch trim is fine IMO and you only need it for the necessary adjustement on final approach.

The FLCS is stabilizing the F-16 at 10deg AoA without trim input.

Hence if you want to fly between 11 and 13deg you need to trim a bit nose up and trim sensitivity is ok in this case.

Yeah I have read elsewhere that the pitch trim is very sensitive on the real plane so I’m happy with how it is implemented. As discussed here in several posts Pitch trim is only used for landing if required, I have read elsewhere the same and that you use some Pitch trim to fly the 13degree AOA approach to relieve pilot workload (stick pressure).

I almost feel like it's a FCS issue instead of a trim issue. Or a combination of both.

I find both pitch and roll trim over-sensitive.

Question for those who complain about over-sensitive pitch trim.

Are you experiencing this on final approach case or when trying to trim during 'normal' flight?

If it's normal flight, why are you using pitch trim?

It would be good to get an official word on the trim and rudder issues. Seems there are more than a few folks indicating issues/oddities/trouble.

Like the OP, I feel the pitch trim is way too sensitive, but after doing some reading and learning that the F16 is a different plane due to the FLCS control, I consciously forced myself to stop using the trim and have not regretted it.

Though, like I have said, it would really be instructive and guiding to know from the "officials" what the real deal is with the trim. I think it's an enigma now. It is something ED can help to clarify for us.

Question for those who complain about over-sensitive pitch trim.

Are you experiencing this on final approach case or when trying to trim during 'normal' flight?

If it's normal flight, why are you using pitch trim?

All phases of flight. Trimming to counter the constant roll. The flight control system isn't doing it itself. I haven't had a need to use pitch trim at all.

Question for those who complain about over-sensitive pitch trim.

Are you experiencing this on final approach case or when trying to trim during 'normal' flight?

If it's normal flight, why are you using pitch trim?

Because the nose wanders constantly in both roll and pitch in unaccelerated flight.

For me, the Viper simply will not trim hands off and neither A/P mode will hold it straight and level. Altitude Hold requires Roll trim and Attitude Hold needs help holding a specific pitch.

Because the nose wanders constantly in both roll and pitch in unaccelerated flight.

 

For me, the Viper simply will not trim hands off and neither A/P mode will hold it straight and level. Altitude Hold requires Roll trim and Attitude Hold needs help holding a specific pitch.

Yes, Yes and Yes!:thumbup:

All phases of flight. Trimming to counter the constant roll. The flight control system isn't doing it itself. I haven't had a need to use pitch trim at all.

And Yes! I have these same issues!:helpsmilie:

Because the nose wanders constantly in both roll and pitch in unaccelerated flight.

 

For me, the Viper simply will not trim hands off and neither A/P mode will hold it straight and level. Altitude Hold requires Roll trim and Attitude Hold needs help holding a specific pitch.

For testing I've installed DCS additionally on my laptop. No roll or pitch tendency.

Just to confirm, we are talking about constant speed. If you increase or decrease speed, the nose will rise/drop a bit which needs to be corrected with tiny stick input, but definitely no trim input.

Tried the AP in a 50kts wind with maximum turbulence and it held the altitude very nicely within +20ft.

Yes, Yes and Yes!:thumbup:

And YES!

For testing I've installed DCS additionally on my laptop. No roll or pitch tendency.

 

Just to confirm, we are talking about constant speed. If you increase or decrease speed, the nose will rise/drop a bit which needs to be corrected with tiny stick input, but definitely no trim input.

 

Tried the AP in a 50kts wind with maximum turbulence and it held the altitude very nicely within +20ft.

video or it didnt happen. theres no way with a warthog hotas, to trim this bird to straight and level flight at any speed.

... theres no way with a warthog hotas, to trim this bird to straight and level flight at any speed.

Again, you don't 'trim' for straight and level flight in the F-16.

Don't know about the Warthog but on my PC (T16000M) and on the laptop (no joystick) I don't see any change in pitch and/or roll at constant speed.

Here's a short trk (laptop)

f16_stable.trk

I just finished a tour around the persian gulf where I had to fly 1h straight several times from waypoint to waypoint (yes, I used time scale from time to time;)).

Since autopilot just works for ALT-hold and not for HSEL yet I had to do the heading myself. There was no way to trim the Viper to hold a heading for more than 30s (with 1x time scale!).

It went either left or right.

I hope for a decrease of trim sensivity by at least 50%.

EDIT: just for comparison: I took a Hornet, engaged ALT-hold autopilot mode and it went absolutely straight forever. Even when trimmed to slightly roll before engaging ALT-hold A/P.

EDIT: just for comparison: I took a Hornet, engaged ALT-hold autopilot mode and it went absolutely straight forever. Even when trimmed to slightly roll before engaging ALT-hold A/P.

The Hornet altitude hold mode has a roll stabilization feature. If your roll is < 5° (not sure about the number, could be 2.5° as well) then it will actively take the plane to 0° roll. If you roll it above the threshold, you can release the stick and it will hold that.