Brunner Force Feedback Joystick Base

Give them a shout on discord. MTFOUNDRY channel.

32 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Dosn't fit, the "wing" on the mount plate are to tight, and won't fit around the cloth covered rim. I had to mount it upside down, but that is clearly not how it's supposed to be fitten given how the scews fit. 

By "wing" you mean the vertical parts that are stabilizing it?

That should point down and then you put the stick in the frame coming from the top.

If there is some other problem, maybe you should take a picture, because I really fail to see how this shouldn't work.

1 hour ago, Berniyh said:

By "wing" you mean the vertical parts that are stabilizing it?

That should point down and then you put the stick in the frame coming from the top.

If there is some other problem, maybe you should take a picture, because I really fail to see how this shouldn't work.

It's literally just to small the square hole, the sides are too narrow and hit the leather covered part of the base.

44 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

It's literally just to small the square hole, the sides are too narrow and hit the leather covered part of the base.

 

 

The Monstertech frame is not supposed to even get close to the leather parts of the base. Underneath the leather is a metal plate. The Monstertech frame is supposed to be below that plate, as you can see in the picture I posted above.

If you still have an issue, please post a picture of what you're doing.

Supports DirectX FFB now:

https://forum.brunner-innovation.swiss/forums/topic/directx-driver/#post-3001

I just activated my device for DirectX FFB. Testing in game will follow, but Brunner DirectX software offers all possible configuration for your FFB effects... 

As a side note, in my case I'm using a T-50 grip from Virpil and in order to proper calibrate the "brake" axis on it I had to use a clean-up script provided earlier by Brunner. Then calibration works smoothly.

I'll leave it here for your convenience.

My recommendation also is to unplug all other joystick devices before switching from CLSim mode to DirectX, otherwise the switcher will try to apply the change on all of them and will fail.

 USB_com_problem_fix.zip

25 minutes ago, Abburo said:

I just activated my device for DirectX FFB. Testing in game will follow, but Brunner DirectX software offers all possible configuration for your FFB effects... 

As a side note, in my case I'm using a T-50 grip from Virpil and in order to proper calibrate the "brake" axis on it I had to use a clean-up script provided earlier by Brunner. Then calibration works smoothly.

I'll leave it here for your convenience.

My recommendation also is to unplug all other joystick devices before switching from CLSim mode to DirectX, otherwise the switcher will try to apply the change on all of them and will fail.

  USB_com_problem_fix.zip 10.94 kB · 0 downloads

If you switch it to DirectX, which I guess should be rather called HID FFB(?), will that change be persistent or will you have to do it again every time after you turn on the device?

Didn't yet have the chance to test it myself and even if, have to perform a FW update first (wanted to wait until they announce full HID FFB compatibility).

The switcher trying to switch all devices sounds like a bug, did you report that to Brunner?

Well the switcher trying to switch all devices is just my guess... because i had all other devices plugged in when i switch for first time and return me a notification that device cannot be switched... unplug them all and rund again the sofwtare, then I found that my base was already switched... so that was my assumption... could be indeed a bug within the filtering devices by that software. However something similar happens with Virpil/VKB sometimes. Is easy to workaround it, but i'll let Brunner know about it of course.

The HID of the device seems to be changed as per below picture as well... is having different name now by adding that DirectX suffix.

The FW update is safe and quick, there is nothing holding you on to proceed with it.

The new software allows you to do any settings you imagine on the DirectX effects as per attached snapshot.

First test... you would need to know about FFB direction setting for trimmer (not a bug at all... just a feature, configurable )

Just to confirm, does this mean it now supports all the FFB effects of the DCS modules (which have FFB support) out of the box like e.g. Logitech G940?

47 minutes ago, Abburo said:

Well the switcher trying to switch all devices is just my guess... because i had all other devices plugged in when i switch for first time and return me a notification that device cannot be switched... unplug them all and rund again the sofwtare, then I found that my base was already switched... so that was my assumption... could be indeed a bug within the filtering devices by that software. However something similar happens with Virpil/VKB sometimes. Is easy to workaround it, but i'll let Brunner know about it of course.

The HID of the device seems to be changed as per below picture as well... is having different name now by adding that DirectX suffix.

The FW update is safe and quick, there is nothing holding you on to proceed with it.

The new software allows you to do any settings you imagine on the DirectX effects as per attached snapshot.

 

 

 

Ugh, those colors. xD

Thanks for the info, I'll give it a go during the weekend. Will be interesting to see how it performs.

Even though it's not really critical for me anyway, because I'm not look too much for effects, but trim is the only thing I really need and that worked already before (just not with the in-game functionality).

11 minutes ago, Dudikoff said:

Does this mean it now supports all the FFB effects of the DCS modules (which have FFB support) out of the box like e.g. Logitech G940?

Yes, it supports HID FFB, which is the standard that pretty much all other FFB joysticks should conform to as well. So any game supporting HID FFB via DirectInput should work now with the joystick. Including racing simulators, if you want to drive those with a joystick …

6 minutes ago, Berniyh said:

Yes, it supports HID FFB, which is the standard that pretty much all other FFB joysticks should conform to as well. So any game supporting HID FFB via DirectInput should work now with the joystick. Including racing simulators, if you want to drive those with a joystick …

Thanks. Nah, I'm just interested in it for flying the helicopters in DCS properly (and I guess WW2 fighters are nice with it).

After flying with the trim on the G940, it's hard to go back to flying choppers with a regular base and G940 is too clunky to be used as a primary stick/base.

This Brunner CLS-E could be my primary stick base for everything in DCS, now that it supports DX natively, I guess. Just need to start saving.. I presume they don't do discounts ever?

4 minutes ago, Dudikoff said:

Thanks. Nah, I'm just interested so I can fly the helicopters in DCS properly.

After flying with the trim on the G940, it's hard to go back to flying choppers with a regular base and G940 is too clunky to be used as a primary stick/base. This Brunner CLS-E could be my primary stick base for everything in DCS, now that it supports DX natively, I guess.

Not sure what you mean exactly, but I'm pretty sure the CLS-E base is significantly bigger than the G940 base.

The new feature supports native DirectX FFB indeed... no need of CLSim software or anything... any game supporting DirectX FFB will work with Brunner seamlessly.

Just made some tests and found out some quirks... in Mi24 after hitting trim, the joystick will not remain in the position but will always add an offset. I have set the trim mod in "Specials" menu to joystick without springs and FFB... tried all settings there... no luck

In Huey case... if "joystick without springs and FFB" is set the trim button will not keep it in place at all, but is trying to recenter. Changing it to Default, will keep it in place but will add some offset.. in this case i would say is normal... 

any ideas anyone?

58 minutes ago, Berniyh said:

Not sure what you mean exactly, but I'm pretty sure the CLS-E base is significantly bigger than the G940 base.

I mean, I use Cougar base on some table mounts and don't feel like fiddling with G940 stick there just for having FFB to fly helicopters. If CLS-E gets DX support, I could just replace my Cougar base with it and use it as my standard base for both aircraft and helicopter modules is what I wanted to say (I'd have to buy an adapter for Monstertech mounts for it, naturally).

55 minutes ago, Abburo said:

The new feature supports native DirectX FFB indeed... no need of CLSim software or anything... any game supporting DirectX FFB will work with Brunner seamlessly.

Just made some tests and found out some quirks... in Mi24 after hitting trim, the joystick will not remain in the position but will always add an offset. I have set the trim mod in "Specials" menu to joystick without springs and FFB... tried all settings there... no luck

In Huey case... if "joystick without springs and FFB" is set the trim button will not keep it in place at all, but is trying to recenter. Changing it to Default, will keep it in place but will add some offset.. in this case i would say is normal... 

any ideas anyone?

Perhaps it could be posted on Brunner support forums. Hopefully these issues will be ironed out quickly.

@Abburoone more question: I see you have vJoy installed there. Is that required for the Brunner HID FFB interface to work? Or do you have it for some other reason?

@Berniyh vJoy is remanent for the CLSim FFB functionality. Is not required anymore for DX version.

Maybe worth to add that I am using a 7cm extender.

I tried CLSim vs DirectX... CLSim keeps the exact trimmed position, so the forces from base are strong enough to hold even with extender. With DXFFB is always leaning to me after trimming, but not sure is related to forces to sustain it or is that offset that DCS is sending wrongly...

For now I'm back to CLSim but will continue to investigate with higher level of forces for DX version.

Hi, Diego from Brunner here.

vor einer Stunde schrieb Dudikoff:

...

Perhaps it could be posted on Brunner support forums. Hopefully these issues will be ironed out quickly.

 

Yes, for Brunner FFB Support, please post any findings here:

https://forum.brunner-innovation.swiss/forums/topic/directx-ffb-support

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Dudikoff:

Just to confirm, does this mean it now supports all the FFB effects of the DCS modules (which have FFB support) out of the box like e.g. Logitech G940?

 

Yes, the devices support the complete FFB HID profile.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Dudikoff:

I presume they don't do discounts ever?

No, sorry.

vor 51 Minuten schrieb Berniyh:

@Abburoone more question: I see you have vJoy installed there. Is that required for the Brunner HID FFB interface to work? Or do you have it for some other reason?

No, neither vJoy nor CLS2Sim are needed. You can't use CLS2Sim or vJoy when in the Joystick is in FFB mode.

19 minutes ago, Abburo said:

@Berniyh vJoy is remanent for the CLSim FFB functionality. Is not required anymore for DX version.

Maybe worth to add that I am using a 7cm extender.

I tried CLSim vs DirectX... CLSim keeps the exact trimmed position, so the forces from base are strong enough to hold even with extender. With DXFFB is always leaning to me after trimming, but not sure is related to forces to sustain it or is that offset that DCS is sending wrongly...

For now I'm back to CLSim but will continue to investigate with higher level of forces for DX version.

Ok thanks, that makes sense.

I don't know how DCS implements FFB exactly. There are multiple ways to achieve FFB using different HID FFB effects: constant force, friction, damping, spring, sine wave, square wave, sawtooth and triangle (maybe more, but these are the ones I know of).

For today's driving games, most of these are unused these days and instead you're mainly using the constant force effect. Of course the force is not constant, but you basically just give the joystick a force value to set (hence constant) which you then update continuously according to the physics. Other effects like spring (centering force) or sine wave were used in the past, but today the physics models are so refined that it's better to just calculate these effects in the proper physics model instead of faking it e.g. via the spring effect. (I think I've read that rFactor 2 uses the same method but not by using constant force but rather a sine wave force offset, without actually simulating a sine wave. Not sure why, but the important part is that all they are doing is just constantly updating the specific force they want the wheel to output.)

Since the physics model in DCS is quite refined as well, in principle I'd expect them to do the same and use this method to simulate the proper physics, but I honestly don't know, could be different. The good thing is that you should be able to find out by activating/deactivating (or scaling) the specific effects. If they do, then I'd expect this to be a DCS problem, since all the base would be doing is just update the forces as they come in via the API.

@Berniyhthe effects you are talking there are covered by the new Brunner software, and they are allowing in detail setting for them.

My problem is slightly different and not related to the FFB effects, but to the trim option mainly for helis which should retain the stick in the specified position. This is not working properly via DirectX mode for me and is adding some offset of unkown nature for the moment.

Maybe @NineLine or @BIGNEWY might have a look on this topic please?

Thank you @BIGNEWY I am opened to test and provide anything required by the team, just contact me and I'll do anything is needed.

58 minutes ago, Abburo said:

@Berniyhthe effects you are talking there are covered by the new Brunner software, and they are allowing in detail setting for them.

My problem is slightly different and not related to the FFB effects, but to the trim option mainly for helis which should retain the stick in the specified position. This is not working properly via DirectX mode for me and is adding some offset of unkown nature for the moment.

Maybe @NineLine or @BIGNEWY might have a look on this topic please?

Yeah and by disabling all effects but one, you can find out which effects DCS uses.

If your problem is happening using the in-game trim, then I'd guess that it's a DCS problem, since it means that DCS would tell the base to have zero force at a different position than you'd expect.

@Berniyh is related to the option in the picture attached.... nothing more to any sort of FFB effects ...

null

I download and install the firmware. Used the app to activate the new feature, I haven't tried it in DCS,  but I can't get it to work in Cliffs over dover blitz. And I can't register on the brunner forum. As no matter how many times I click the not a robot thing. I claim I haven't clicked it.

Corrrection I got the forcefeedback efffects, however most of the buttons on my virpil stick is not working, I can assgin them in the options, however they have no effect in game(like trim, radar modes etc) Only thing working on the stick is axis, trigger, weapons select and vr zoom)