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Old 05-16-2019, 12:35 AM   #31
RustBelt
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Originally Posted by Ala13_ManOWar View Post
I-16 Shkas used the typical mix of ammo, regular, tracer, HE, etc. But I don't know if it's modelled.


As said, not sure it has such a big impact in performance, but we don't know what the guns harmonisation is yet, to name something that could eventually affect perceived performance.



S!
Everything I've read says the I-16 only fired the special Ш marked mostly API and Tracer.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:16 AM   #32
zhukov032186
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Originally Posted by Shahdoh View Post
The bullet of the 54r is the same diameter and only a few millimeters longer than the 39 round. I would not call that a "MUCH LARGER ROUND". What makes the difference is the amount of powder packed behind the round. This is where the greater power lies.

Still, find it hard to believe that it would match the damage capabilities of 6 or more 50 caliber guns or the cannons.
Yes... the bullet is the same diameter and only slightly longer... yes, the case is considerably larger, and what I was referreing to. It is b
obvious two 7mm bullets are going to be approximately the same physical size. Anyway, point stands it's a more powerful round (we're talking semantics, basically, you thought I was referring to bullet, while I was referring to the whole thing, ie the round).

No, not as much as a .50, by a factor of several times round for round anyway. The high fire rate will still mean it hits harder than similar .30 cal weapons though by virtue of volume. I'm sure there are discrepancies ingame damage values, but my original post was merely correcting the OP and several others, who kept referencing 7.62x39 which has zilch to do with any of this

@Fencible
No, a 30-06 is quite a bit larger than 7.62x54r, .308 is what it's closest to (7.62x51 NATO)
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:34 AM   #33
zhukov032186
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Originally Posted by fjacobsen View Post
Just a thought, since I´m no expert on this...

How about rate of fire ?

A one second burst from both calibers could equal the same "mass" due to the higher rate of fire of the small caliber and the hits would equal a shotgun burst due to the spread.

The same could be said with guns vs cannons..
Why didn´t the US fighters favour 20mm guns over their .50, like the Germans and British did if the logic is that a larger caliber equals higher damage ?
Because it isn't about mass exclusively. A machine gun fires solid or incendiary rounds, which are good for taking out engines or setting fuel aflame. A cannon blows out large holes, sending shrapnel everywhere, and potentially shattering the frame with a direct hit. It's like quickly stabbing someone with a knife ten times vs smashing their head with a sledgehammer.

The Germans were biased more toward every increasing numbers of ever larger cannons because they were dealing with thousands of B-17s, B-24s, Lancasters, etc. Machine guns, even 50s, are very ineffective against something that big. Filling it with holes or knocking out an engine isn't good enough, nor are repeated passes advisable. You need to kill it, NOW, on your first pass.

The Allies had no such issues, and what comparatively few medium bombers the Germans and Japanese had were not even REMOTELY as well defended, as a result the US stuck with manufacturing large numbers of machine guns, mostly for volume of fire.

It is worth noting the machine guns were ditched as soon as jets (which provide a narrow window for firing) and Soviet bomber swarms (which, again, would be hard to bring down with mgs alone) entered the scene, never to return.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:36 AM   #34
Ala13_ManOWar
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Originally Posted by RustBelt View Post
Everything I've read says the I-16 only fired the special Ш marked mostly API and Tracer.
Yeah, specially marked as I said before, because it's a special ammunition for the high ROF weapons. The rotten cartridge in my previous pic is a Ш marked one. It's rotten because that difference, steel body and thicker walls to hold the special gunpowder for high ROF guns. The brass Mosin cartridges are usually as new despite being almost 100 years old.

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