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Old 06-19-2020, 11:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draconus View Post
You misunderstood. STT after launch changes signal (or adds another, like CW) which some RWR can discern. When this signal is no longer detected RWR stops the warning and that was the answer.
No mate I didn't misunderstand . You are right about the above, but my response was in regards to what Ironhand said; “until the radar dropped out of STT after the launch.” - i.e. that you don't need to drop out of STT in order for missile support to end and thus RWR no longer giving a "launch warning".

The "lock warning" on the other hand is associated with the radar tracking the target in STT mode regardless of whether a missile is launched or not.
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Old 06-19-2020, 12:05 PM   #22
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No mate I didn't misunderstand . You are right about the above, but my response was in regards to what Ironhand said; “until the radar dropped out of STT after the launch.” - i.e. that you don't need to drop out of STT in order for missile support to end and thus RWR no longer giving a "launch warning".
I'd like to know about that time duration when launching platform stops supporting the missile if you mean that above. Is it preset for a particular missile and supporting radar?
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Old 06-19-2020, 01:09 PM   #23
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I'd like to know about that time duration when launching platform stops supporting the missile if you mean that above. Is it preset for a particular missile and supporting radar?
For the R-27R missile, the maximum time duration of inertial guidance/radio correction is 30 seconds, while IIRC the total time for powered flight is ~ 60 seconds.

Whether the launching platform can determine a "lost missile" prior to that - i.e. target/missile parameters, range/time duration I don't know, but at least there would be little reason to provide missile support beyond its max operating time.
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Old 06-20-2020, 09:03 AM   #24
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I did some testing in DCS and the current behavior for SPO RWR (Russian version) is:

LA warning starts after the missile has been fired and persists until the radar lock is broken.
This kind of makes sense since I see no reason for the radar to get out of pulse mode - IMHO.

I didn't check the behavior of the NATO RWRs yet. This is next on my list, but I guess the results should be the same.
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Last edited by Cmptohocah; 06-20-2020 at 09:04 AM. Reason: Correction
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Old 06-20-2020, 10:08 AM   #25
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LA warning starts after the missile has been fired and persists until the radar lock is broken.
And if it keeps the lock does it stop after some time or when the missile is lost in DCS?
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Old 06-22-2020, 07:47 AM   #26
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And if it keeps the lock does it stop after some time or when the missile is lost in DCS?
The launch warning is active throughout the SST lock, even if the missile is lost.
It's a good way to "block" someone's RWR and force them to manoeuvre.
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Old 06-22-2020, 05:35 PM   #27
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And if it keeps the lock does it stop after some time or when the missile is lost in DCS?
Nope, I was doing some testing with out-maneuvering ERs without breaking the Flankers lock, and the RWR was sounding until the merge even much after defeating the ER. https://youtu.be/hFNJfR1q9XM?t=11
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:15 AM   #28
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I also read that the RWR does not work directly above or below the plane. So when you bank 90 degrees, then pull back (exposing the belly of your plane to the missile/hostile) the RWR goes silent. So after a notch, when you start to roll level, the RWR can then again see the hostile/missile to your 3 or 9 o'clock.
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:23 AM   #29
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I also read that the RWR does not work directly above or below the plane. So when you bank 90 degrees, then pull back (exposing the belly of your plane to the missile/hostile) the RWR goes silent. So after a notch, when you start to roll level, the RWR can then again see the hostile/missile to your 3 or 9 o'clock.
Yes I would agree with that understanding.
When launched you will often turn to evade, and the RWR warning tone will cease. You can be sure you are still being illuminated for an approaching missile but that the elevation is outside of the RWR antenna limits. When you roll wings level after the turn it's no surprise to see the RWR start screaming again.
Several years ago this was a technique in the MiG-21Bis to determine whether the launching emitter was a SAM or AI; after you turned abeam 3/9 you rolled 45° away from the threat, and reception continued you could guess the transmitter was airborne as SAM's were in the RWR "shadow."

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Old 06-30-2020, 06:48 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draconus View Post
Theoretically, if the signals were the same, same strenght and direction, your RWR wouldn't discern one from the other.

@Motomouse: FC3 has simplified RWR implementation. Some modules like F-14 have much more realistic RWR simulation with no such thing as blind spots.
Yes. Like SPO-15 doesn't have a blind spots for a detecting emissions like now. Where past 60 degree below or above your RWR goes silent like it couldn't detect the emissions, even when antennas are completely visible to emission source.

What there should happen is that as the emission is received to all sensors at same time, the resolution to detect the direction is compromised. And only thing that RWR can give you is a approximate direction and is the emission above or below you.

Same limitation is with all RWR systems when there is just a three sensors, creating a parallel receiver surface with no timing difference when signal was detected.

By the timing resolution of the RWR processing unit, the transmission angle is limited to distance between sensors.

So having sensors at close group is far less accurate than sensors spread furthest possible from each others.

Then the own logic that what will happen when only limited amount of sensors detects the emission, as likely opposite side ones are blocked from it. And as with two sensors one can calculate the direction in one axis when sensors positions are known, but it is impossible to detect the two axis position for source without third or fourth at different axis.

As RWR systems has multiple sensors on various distances, and there is only one emission source, we can accurately calculate using two sensors the direction of the emission, but not the altitude. With third we get altitude as well as long we have it at separate axis/plane.

A fourth sensor wouldn't add much to the process than slightly help in some "blind spots" to calculate vectors.

But even such a simple thing as RWR simulation is extremely limited in DCS. With flaws in all of them, but mostly very serious for a SPO-15 that is basically unusable for what capabilities it really has.
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